Help Analyze my 1st EN FTP Test......Please
I am racing Ironman Wisconsin and attended the EN camp, after hearing everything Rich had to say, I jumped on board and I have been moving quickly to get up to speed with the EN way. I was holding off on taking the FTP test thinking I could get a good handle on my number using the other ways but was never really comfortable with what I was coming up with (ego tends to get in the way and I wanted to put that in check). Wednesday I decided I really needed to have an acurate gage on my Power going into this race and tested.
The last Power Test I took was in Jan. and it was a Critical Power (CP) 30 Test. For those not familiar with it, it was 15 minute warm up and then 30 minutes all out. For 30 minutes I averged 346 Watts. I did the test on a properly calibrated Computrainer and I also had my Powertap, both came back with the same result. For this test I did not stay in the aero's the entire time, I would sit up and move around. I am sure most of you know there is a certain amount of pain or discomfort in taking these tests and anything you can do to move around that keeps you comfortable, I did.
So Wednesday Night I did the test on my trainer in the basement and stayed in the aero's the entire time. I think I followed the EN formula pretty well, except I went for 40 minutes solid and threw out the two minutes easy/recovery. My first question is did I screw up the test very much by doing this?
I took the data and looked at it and have broken it into 2 different intervals:
Interval 1: 1 min 352, 2 min 350, 3 min 348, 4 min 347, 5 min 346, 10 min 342, 15 min 334, 20 min 329, AVG HR 164, AVG Cad 82
Interval 2: 1 min 336, 2 min 335, 3 min 331, 4 min 330, 5 min 327, 10 min 316, 15 min 313, 20 min 313, AVG HR 169, AVG Cad 79
Overall Avg Watts 320, Cadence 81, HR 167
I know some are going to say I went out too hard and I agree, I tried to take it out around 350 based on my last test in Jan. to try and see what I could sustain thinking I might be able to hold 350 the entire time (not).
Some of my questions now are what's my FTP? is it 95% of 320, which is 304?
Any other thoughts or recommendations for the next time I test (which will not be until the OS) I would appreciate.
Thanks!
JT
Comments
What is your Normalized power for the 40 minutes? That is what to use for the FTP. Next time, take the 2 min recovery as well to be fully EN compliant
Also, as you are probably aware with an FTP that high (i.e., a serious biker) your indoor FTP in the aero bars will be lower than outside and also lower than indoors if on the hoods.
There is a good thread on how to pace the FTP test. What I recall is to take out the first 20 minutes at your "old" ftp (assuming it is probably a tad lower than current fitness) and then build the 2nd 20' if you still feel good. The last 10' are horrible - the last 5' the clock seems to stop moving.
I think you can use 320 for now and can validate that with your other rides.
Can you give us your last 28 day power chart and maybe that will give us a better idea of where your numbers should be? Also, how have your FTP intervals in training been going. A recent day where you did a long ride with 2 x 20' (4') would really help us help you.
Note Keith's "Wicked Smart Member" tag -- he knows what he is talking about...
You seem to trust the results of your earlier test, however that was significantly higher than this test. Any thoughts as to why?
Like Keith said, the biggest problem you have is that you did the test indoors, where power does not directly correlate to power outdoors. Many people see about 10% difference between the two, but that's not accurate enough to pace an IM off of, where running 10 watts too hot can lead to walking on the run.
What does your 28 day power distribution look like? Your mean max chart? What kinds of intervals have you been able to hold on your long rides (and what were your power targets on those rides?). Going and doing another test (outside, and per protocol this time) would be best, but can be difficult to manage with IM training fatigue, only you can decide if you've got it in you.
Mike
Just a little tangent on the indoors/outdoors and aero/hoods issue. Power indoors on the aero bars will be lower than indoors on the hoods (or cow horns). The same will be true outdoors - one can generate more power sitting up slightly on a road bike than riding a TT bike in the full aero position. BUT ... even that lower power in the bars will probably generate a faster speed due to less wind resistence. And that speed is what we are *really* concerned about - I want to go as fast as I can for 112 miles without compromising my ability torun well.
Ideally, an EN FTP test outdoors on a TT bike in the aero position about 2-3 weeks before an IM would provide the best guidance for managing power during the race. You're not trying to find out what your maximum ability to generate power in *any* condition is; you're trying to find out how hard you can race without blowing up on the run. But ... we're often full of cumulative fatigue at that point of the training cycle. So even an outdoors/TT test may be too conservative. That's why Keith's suggestion of analyzing power files, cross-checked by your recent 40 minute all out effort on the CT is what you need to do now.
Ok, I will do my best to answer the questions you all have given me.
Jeff, my normalized power for the test was 322. I could understand that my power could be lower indoors, but wouldn't that be ok? I guess at this point my concern was estimating my FTP to be too high and cooking myself on the bike and not having enough left for a good run?
Keith, I think you have said the same thing as Jeff about Power being lower on the bike indoor vs. outdoors. I guess I would ask you the same question, is it ok to be low vs. being too high? I know over time I will get this better dialed in (my FTP), at this point I am just trying to play it safe for IMOO. To be honest I don't ever do intervals in my long rides, I just ride. Some times I feel like hammering, sometimes I go steady, just kind of depends who I am riding with etc. I know this is something I will need to become more disciplined about next year when it comes to my longer rides. I am sure this is part of the reason for my drop in power, to much long riding with not enough intensity to keep the FTP up. I am a spin instructor so during the week I tend to get some intervals in my legs from when I teach, which I am sure helps, but doesn't make up for doing intervals during long rides. I don't have WKO+, but I will be getting it. I looked over my last 28 days and ran some numbers on my own. I am not really sure if these are going to be correct or what you want. I averaged everything to help simplify the numbers. Avg ride distance was 95 miles, avg power was 211.71 & Normalized was 253.42. I can list out the rides if you like, but thought this might be easier.
Mike, I am pretty sure all the numbers are accurate. The only reason I think I know was I did my first CP 30 test in 2009 and avg. 297 watts, then in 2010 it was 326, then in Jan. this year it was 346. The progression has been steady and the last two years when I have tested, it has been in Jan. I have been pretty fresh vs. right now I would say I am not fresh. I do think a good part of the drop in my power for this test I just did comes from me staying in the aerobars the entire time. I have never done an entire test in the aerobars before and I know I am much stronger sitting up hammering away in the horns vs. aero position.
Keith,
Help my understand what exactly you are saying? I understand the whole Irene and being on the trainer for the 1st time since May. You say "You dropped your FTP by 24 watts" what do you mean by that? Were you doing a power test or some intervals and your power was down by 24 watts or you just knew how much you needed to adjust your FTP by because you were inside?
Thanks Al, this makes sense.
Another question I have or it's just something I don't understand is, wouldn't it be better to always test inside on a trainer where conditions can be better controlled vs. outside where conditions are much more likely to vary? I recognize that power on the indoor trianer will probably be lower than outside, but wouldn't it be easy to adjust for that vs. doing a test outside one day where it's hotter vs cooler or windy vs. calm conditions?
Indoors vs outdoors, tri bike vs road bike. Tri bike on the hoods vs tri bike in the aerobars. All of these combinations on flat ground vs on a climb. Then add/subract heat. All these can yield very different FTP's.
Bottomline is you want your FTP conditions to be as race specific as possible. The means, generally:
Overtime, through testing, analyzing files, observing the numbers in different situations, all of this make sense. And it absolutely does make a different. The FTP you use to calc your race pacing is not something you want to swag but, if you do, better to underestimate. Being off by as little as 5w does make a difference.
For example, I know my FTP is 295w right now. It "might" be 300w. The pacing I get when I calc off of 295w makes sense. I've seen those numbers in lots of long rides, race rehearsals and races in the past. The pacing I get when I calc off of 300w...makes sense also. I've also seen those numbers. But...I might be 305w by race day. The numbers I get when I calc off of 300w...those are legit.
Hard to believe that a range of 10w can make that big of a difference but when I see 218w vs 223w vs 228w -- possible goal watts for me -- there are worlds between them.
Bottomline is that if you have any doubt what your FTP is, take the lower number of what you think it is, then prove yourself wrong on race day
IMO, we use the FTP metric for two different purposes: training and racing. For training purposes, an indoor FTP, or one generated outside on a road bike is just fine to be using when planning out intensities for a training ride. One can always adjust on the fly for terrain, RPE, cumulative fatigue, etc to get the required training effort in.
But come race day, a difference of 5-10 watts (5 for me, 10 for you) might be critical. E.g., if I use an outdoor FTP of 260 generated on a road bike, or an indoor one of 215 on a CompuTrainer (my actual numbers), instead of the 230 I currently test at outdoors on my TT bike in the aero position, it will make a HUGE difference in the quality of my race outcome. In the first instance, I'll be walking after about mile 8-10 of the run. In the second, I'll waste maybe 10-15 minutes of time on the bike trying to ride too easily.
What I mean is my outdoor FTP is 245, so I intentionally took 10% off of that (24 watts) and estimated my FTP at 221 when I had to switch to the trainer. I was supposed to do 3 x 10' @ 80% after a 45 minute warm up. After 30 minutes, my legs were feeling it only riding at 75% of 221. I then could not complete the 80% (of 221) during the workout. If I wanted to try an FTP interval set at 221, I'm pretty sure I couldn't have managed it.