Garmin Edge 800 Info
Based on other threads it seems there are some folks interested in the Garmin Edge 800, so i figured I would post a quick summary of my thoughts.
First off, to be completely up front, I have bought a number of Garmin devices through retail channels of the years and have always liked them however I received the edge 800 as part of my sponsorship with Garmin this year.
I also have an edge 500 and forerunner 310XT as well amoung other devices.
The edge 800 vs edge 500 vs forerunner 310XT:
If you want one device for triathlon look no further than the forerunner 310XT with a bike mount. It does everything you need and will soon have TSS/IF/NP. Multipsport mode works great and you can wear it for an entire ironman. With the bike mount you can use it just like a bike computer as well and have all your power numbers in front of you.
An edge 500 mainly adds a larger display with more data fields, along with the ability to pre-program course, in a slightly smaller form factor. There are no maps and no directions, but if you program a course is it gives you a black line to follow and beeps if you leave the black line...it's up to you to find your way back on your own though. I think this is a great computer at a fair price and it will have TSS, etc soon.
The edge 800 adds an even larger touch screen display, with more data fields, and maps with on the fly and pre-programed routeing. Some nice features are that if you have a route programed it will show an elevation profile so you can see where you are on each climb. Also if you go off course it will give you directions to get back to the course. If you want mapping this is a great device, if you don't care about mapping, save your money and get a edge 500 or 310.
FWIW, my race setup is a edge 500 on the bike and a forerunner 310 on my wrist for the full day. I use the edge 800 in training a lot and whenever I am following a new route or just want to have maps so I can explore.
Which edge 800 to buy:
Unless you find a great deal on the combo with everything (maps, speed/cadence, heartrate), my suggestion is just to save the money and pick up the base model. I'll talk about the maps below, the speed you can get from GPS with no sensor, the cadence you can get from a quarq or power tap or vector, and you can use any ant+ heartrate strap from another device you already have or from amazon for $30 if you need to buy one.
Do I need to buy Maps:
The short answer is no, but there are some catches.
The edge 800 includes a base map with major roads and highways for the US. It can route on those roads but it does not have any detail at all. For example it had the two major streets outside my sub division, but nothing at all from my sub division. You can get by with this but it is not ideal. If you buy or download maps you get the full detail you see on google maps or similar services.
If you want plug and play, then it might be worth it to purchase the maps from Garmin. for about $100 you can either get a microSD card that plugs right in and is ready to go in seconds or a DVD where you can view the maps on your computer and then transfer them to the device.
My recomendation is to buy a cheap microSD card, I got a 4GB one for like $12 a few months ago. then go to: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Map_On_Garmin and download a free OSM map for your device. The map is almost exactly the same as the garmin version and very easy to download and put on the device. It will take you about 20 minutes to figure it all out and save you about $90.
As a side note, there is even a satalitte map available for the edge 800 from birds eye but you have to pay for a annual subscription.
How do I follow a route:
There are a number of ways to do this each with different advantages. This will work with or without the additional maps.
My favorite method is:
- Create the route I want to follow in ridewithgps.com or bikeroutetoaster.com
- export the route as a tcx file
- connect the garmin and put the route in the "/garmin/new" folder
- disconnect the garmin and start it up.
I find ridewithgps to be more user friendly to create the route but the turn warnnings and cue sheets don't always work correctly. bikeroutertoaster is not quite as easy and nice to use, but it does a really good job with the cue sheet and you can set it to put a warning in X meters before a turn which is really nice.
Also, if you have the additional maps, you can simply enter an address, POI, etc and it will route you from your current location to the destination.
Summary
All in all, I think the edge 800 is a great device and works well IF you want mapping and routes right in front of your face. However if you are not going to use the feature that much, save your money and go with an edge 500 or forerunner 310XT.
Sorry but I don't have any discount codes from Garmin to share. If you search around though you can typically get the devices for 10-15% off at major online bike stores or some times amazon.
Comments
One question...can you download a route from Garmin Connect? I'd be interested as to how that compares with with the two sites you mentioned above. Also, can you create a route from scratch if you know a course you want to do but cannot find someone else's ride of that course on-line?
The Edge 800 was on my list this year but I never could swallow the cost. But there were qute a number of times that I went out to WFG or Old School AGAIN just because I didn't have the confidence I'd be on the right route. And there were a number of times I tried something new but ended up stopping a dozen times or more to make sure I was in the right place (which really upsets the flow of the workout). So I think this is most certainly on my list again.
Btw, it seems that Garmin is playing up the Edge 800 heavily in advance of the springtime 2012 Vector release. So I assume that means we shouldn't expect a replacement for it anytime soon. I haven't read if DC Rainmaker has thoughts on that...any thoughts from the team would be interesting.
Great work as always. I may pick on up at the start of next season but do have a question about mapping on the 310. Does the 310 have the ability to warn you of an up coming turn or is it just the black line like the 500?
Thanks!
@Jeff - yes on the 500, but it is a pain in the butt. I don't believe the 310 can at all. On the 500 you have to manually at a course point with a warning at exactly the point you want it to display the message. So if you are willing to use garmin basecamp and do this for every turn, then yes. On the edge 800 you can use a tcx file from the sites i mentioned which do this automatically.
@Jennifer - totally agree with you. sure my iphone and google maps or map my ride works fine, but it was a PITA to try and use it while riding or stop and check it... much easier to have a map in front of my face with a line to follow, my real time watts, and the distance until my next turn all there all the time.
Now, all of the sudden I find myself potentially on the verge of moving to a completely new, much larger and much more densely populated area, suddenly maps are starting to sound a lot more attractive.
Yeah, I find it essential just so I don't spend a lot of time on roads that are too busy to do an actual workout on. Stringing those roads together in the city/suburbs can be a PITA.
@Matt- is mapmyride compatible? didn't even think of it, but I have a bunch of rides saved there.
@David - I wear the 310XT from about 6AM until I finish and have used it in every swim for the last 2 years. I'm on my second one though as I cracked the screen on a 1st gen one and get a warranty replacement. I do not use the bike mount and just leave it on my wrist all day. I have not heard of any plans to update the 705 firmware to include NP/IF/TSS, that doesn't mean it wont happen but the 800, 500, 310 are all in line before it for an update.
@Jennifer - i've had mixed results with exporting routes from mapmyride so I stopped using it. Some worked fine, and on others the directions/turns would not work at all. I gave up messing with it as the other sites i mention work better, are faster, and don't have annoying ads.
Two other thoughts - keep in mind the routing/mapping takes a little trial and error to get it working how you want it. It took me about 5 or 6 test rides to figure out how it get it to work exactly like I wanted. Also, it sometimes has issues with multiple loop courses if you leave the course. For example it you were to do the IMWI bike course, with an out, two loops, and back. If you are in the first loop and pull of the road to a gas station it will beep and say you are off course, if you go back pretty quickly it works fine. If you sit at the gas station for a while and then go back it MAY think you are now magically on the second loop. It will still show you an accurate map then, but the when you go to start the second loop it will try to tell you to turn to go back to madison... make sense? It did this to me once and worked perfectly a few other times. It wasn't a big deal as I could still see the map on the second loop, i just lost the warnings that said turn right in 200 feet.
wondering if you are an advanced 310xt user (sounds like you are) and can point me on where to start on this one...
did IM Loo the last week, charged my 310xt fully on Saturday. unplugged it in the late morning. wore it at the start. I planned to leave it on my wrist all day, got on the bike and my joule wasn't picking up Cadence from my Garmin Speed/Cad sensor. Thought maybe the SC sensor could only connect with one ANT+ device at a time so i turned off the garmin.got cadence to sync for a few seconds with the Joule, in fact i think it was always synced with the joule because the joule was reading zero for cadence, not dashed lines like it was for my heart rate strap which i forgot to bring to LV.
so i restart the garmin only to get a low battery warning after about 6.5 hours. The unit was completely drained at about 7:50.
any ideas of what went wrong? would have thought i could go all day with it
Make sure the backlight is not turned to always on. I turn that on sometimes when I'm running at night and I have forgotten to turn it off. It's almost impossible to tell that it's on during daylight. Probably not the issue but it might be worth checking.
Like Bob, I have never had an issue with my 310xt easily lasting 12+ hours. As Bob pointed out the backlight is a huge drain on the battery, along with the vibrating alerts, and seraching for sensors you do not have (i.e. shut off any sensors you are not using). Assuming you really did charge until it said complete and then turned it on just before the race, it sounds like something it wrong with it. I would charge it fully and then start it by a window in your house and just let it run until it dies. If it doesn't last at least 15 hours, I would call garmin support.
All the "pairing" that ever happens is at the receiver end. The ANT+ signal can have an identifier as well as the raw signal...and thus you can listen to only one cadence sensor, only one power meter, etc..... but all that is done at the RECEIVER end and affects nothing in the broadcaster. Thus, as MA suggests, you can have multiple receivers picking up the same device if you want to.
The timing of this post is pretty darn good! See my FB post about losing my Joule when I hit a large pothole at high speed today. It popped off and got run over by a car
Anyway, two weeks ago I would have just bought another Joule as I like it a lot, but now I'm intrigued by the Garmin 800.
A couple quick questions: I read on an Amazon review that the 800 is not using the TCX format but rather something new. True and if so, any issues with TrainingPeaks or WKO that you are aware of?
I have a 310 that I use for running and like a lot too. One feature I've grown to like is the ability to uploaded wirelessly. I couldn't tell if the 800 has the same feature.
Is it possible to turn the maps off and on? I go through some neighborhoods and I'm always making a wrong turn. I'd love to turn the maps and route on through complicated areas and then turn it off to save battery life for 90% of the ride. Possible?
Is the main difference between this and the 500 the mapping feature?
Does it secure better than a Joule to its handle bar mount
tom
The edge 800, 500, and foreruner 310Xt all use the .fit format natively. However the training peaks device agent/WKO read the files just fine and I have had zero issues with the new file type. the advantage is that the file size is significantly smaller than tcx therefore allowing me to keep a full year or more of data on the device compared to older devices that had to be cleared often.
No, the edge series uses mini USB to upload, I said the same thing to my Garmin rep and she said they are moving towards all devices using the ant+ sync in the future.
You can't really turn the map off, but you can just not show it on the screen. I have not noticed any difference in battery life with the map showing the whole ride or with the maps hidden. I haven't really tested it but I have never been below 60% battery life riding for 5 hours.
I much perfer the garmin quarter turn mount over the Joule mount for about 90% of situations, however because you have to twist it to put it on/off there are a few limitations on how you can mount it. Basically you just have to leave enough room be able to turn the whole device 90 deg in either direction. I've been using the edge 500 with the same monut for over 18 months now and never had an issue, but some people have reported breaking the mount.
My suggestion is to go pick one up from REI, buy a blank 2 or 4gb micro sd card, download the free maps, and give it a try. REI has an awesome return policy so if it is not for you then return it and hopefully it will get you by until the new Joule is released.
Just went to the PT site. Looks like they support the 800. They mention not to use auto pause, which I think is an issue with all the Garmin tools. Also noted that when you use and SD card with maps there gets to be a lot of dropped data. It would be interesting to know if you can turn the map off an and on to minimize this issue.
tom
Actually I believe the autopause issue was resolved a while ago. The issue was the same issue as using autopause with any other device not just garmins... basically let's say you do a 3' sprint at 500 watts, then autopause at a stop, then a 3' sprint at 500 watts... when you load the file into WKO it sees this as 6' at 500 watts because the device was paused and no date was recorded. I have not seen this happen in a long time on any of my garmin devices. Whether or not I have autopause on now, WKO shows the zero data for the time I sat still at the stop and therefore it no longer incorrectly thinks I held 500 watts for 6'. If autopause is on it shows your moving time only on the edge, if it is off, it shows the full duration of the workout.... Garmin Connect and WKO both show both of these whether or not I have autopause on. You are correct though, for the best data autopause off still seems to be the best. Basically the raw data in the file is recorded based on a real timestamp not based off the start time of the ride and therefore the software can properly recreate the ride either way.
This is kind of similar to have zero's included in the averages on the device... the file will be the same either way and wko will be the same, the difference is what you see when you are actually riding with the device.
I have never had a date drop with the maps on, but if you are really worried you can remove the microsd card and not have the maps load at all. I personally always have the maps loaded on the device, but only actually use the routing from time to time. Most of the time I just take a quick glance at the map to see where I am and then go back to a normal screen.
One last question though, is it waterproof or do you have to purchase a waterproof case for when it rains? Or in my case, when I sweat on it.
Now to resist buying it until next spring...
Bikeroutetoaster.com is still my preferred method as this puts the turn warnings in automatically. It's not a user friendly as GC but I like not having to look at the edge and having it beep and show turn left on the screen before I get to the intersection.