Race wheel choices/options
I'm looking to get a new set of race wheels. I've done a lot of research with what is available via marketing materials but I'm looking for EN advice. I realize that one set of wheels will not work for all conditions so I'm looking for a reasonable compromise.
Currently I have a wheelcover for my Easton Tempest II's, which are clincher/aluminum hoops.
I just sold my Zipp 404/808 clinchers. They were good wheels and I only sold them as they were not getting used last year and I got for them what I paid.
I've considered the Hed trispoke as a front wheel, 808 front/1080 rear combo, Edge or Reynolds carbon clinchers (scared about warping braking surface), etc....I'm not married to any idea at this point.
What are you techi/geeky bike freaks looking at these days for race day?
Vince
Comments
Guilty of being a wheel junkie.. I've found my Zipp 808 set to be most useful, although I do ride a rear disk in most races. The 808's are relatively light and very aero, so even on a hilly course they work well. FYI, these are tubulars and I've not had any trouble with braking, even in mountains, but I do suggest Swisstop yellow pads. They're better than anything else I've tried.
Of course, whatever you buy, there will be the next latest and greatest one month later...good luck.
Bill
Vince,
I'm running a set of Zipps on my P3: 1080 on the front, Sub9 on the rear. A stupid fast set-up. Handling took a bit to get used to but now I can ride 'em in any conditions.
FWIW, I went 5:37 on the bike at IM Florida averaging 141 watts. Like I said, stupid fast.
A buddy qualified for the sprint World's this past year. He has sh*t for wheels so I loaned my race wheels to him; they flew all the way to Australia! He loved 'em.
Wow. 5:37 on 141 watts? wow. You must be crazy aero, not just your wheels, Bill! I might have to get me one of those 1080's on the front...
-Mike
1080 front wheel? Wow...better not be any wind.
OK...looks like nothing I haven't seen at this point. It still is really all about the engine.
Vince
I'm also a wheels junkie. I have a set of 404, which I use in very windy/hilly events (or road races & fast group rides), I have a disc that I use in almost all timed events and a front 808 that I use in flat & not -too-windy conditions.
If I had to buy one set of wheels to do it all, I would probably go with 1080 back and 808 front BUT if possible also get 404 or Hed tri spoke front wheel for those very windy days.
All my race wheels are tubular since I'm also an ex-wight weenie but tubular vs. Chlicher is a whole other discussion,,,
From my experience & reading, in windy conditions, deep front wheel will you cause you to waste too much energy on handing.
That said, if you are a bigger guy and you are a skilled bike handler, it may not be an issue for you.
I'm leaning towards the 404, 808 front and 1080 rear as I have a Cinqo PM. Also a weight weenie but do you really save much with a tubular with the weight of the glue and heavier tire? That's something I've never seen written up. Splitting hairs I realize but something I've wondered about.
Thanks
Vince
FWIW, a minimal amount of weight added as rotational mass can be significant. Its probably just like the aero helmet, but when I put the race wheels on, the whole bike feels alot lighter and more responsive.
Bill
For an interesting take on the tubular/clincher debate, see the post from Todd at TTBikeFit, where he got a flat on his Tubular...
"So here again I reiterate what I concluded in my article: you are better off with clincher race wheels. The supposed tubular advantages of being less prone to flat, and rideable when flat, are not really advantages. If there is glass all over the road tubulars won’t help you. And if you go totally flat (it was pretty unusual that mine held some air), even though you COULD ride on it, you won’t want to." http://ttbikefit.com/blog/?p=586
Dave
Vince,
Whith the choices you are looking at go with the wheel the LOOKS GOOD!! Not going to make much difference in the speed that all comes from destroying yourself here in the OS. Remember second to pushing the watts is making sure the ride looks good.
Trent...Like your style! If I could drop 10 lbs of lard then I would look good and nobody would be looking at the bike
Which wheel would look best in your opinion on a Ridley Dean?
Vince
Vince.... If its the red, white, and black scheme I would go with Reynolds deep, or Zipps
Nice aero wheels and good bang for you buck... I would go Hed Jet or Stinger 60/90 with a wheel cover. You can find them for under $1500 new, add a cover for under $100, and you have an awesome set of wheels.
I have been very pleased with my Flash Point wheels, so a FP 60/80/wheel cover is another great slight more affordable option.
If you just want awesome fast wheels, go Zipp. My personal dream wheel "set" is ZedTech 404 and 808 Front, with a 1080 Rear and Disc. That would be more then I spend on my last 3 bikes, but it would be cool.
Zipps it might be then. Resale is good with them too.
Vince
Thanks Joel. You summarized what I've read. They only advantages to tubulars that I see are: the "mystical" ride quality and possibly lighter than clinchers if an aluminum rim is being used. Of course on a flat race the extra weight has that flywheel effect for any undulations, which is helpful. It's all splitting hairs but I was just wondering if the EN Haus knew of anything cool out there that I haven't seen yet.
Vince
Bill...you are the man! I hate riding in 10-20 gusts with trainers on. I do not have the skills or nerve to ride those big sails.
Vince
Vince,
the only thing I've head of that's new/interesting is activespokes, and I haven't really heard anything about them in a while. I'm sure that they'd be some crazy violation of The Code, anyways. Otherwise, I think Easton just launched some new carbon clinchers at Interbike, and everything else is kinda incremental. Stay away from carbon spokes on the Mavic's though, just sayin!
Mike
Get either a 1080/808/Hed 90 front and either a Zipp or Hed bump disc. You want a disc. It will be the best everywhere but Kona. Anyone who qualifies and needs a rear wheel I will be happy to lend them one.
The interesting thing about a deep front is that it is easier to handle with a disc in the back. I have found this with both a real disc and my covered 808. The bike is much more stable in cross winds with the 808 on front and the disc in the back than 2 808s. Don't know the physics behind it but it is very real. If I were to do a deep rear [non disc] I would go with a shallower front - 60/90 maybe.
I had 404 tubbies and now have 808 Clinchers for a variety of reasons. Putting the everyday use as a PM aside I would still go with clinchers. They are just easier to deal with. That whole "its easier to change a flat on a tubbie" thing is just nonsense. I had a kinda sorta flat during my last race with the 404's. It was holding about 40 lbs and I was close to transition so I just rode it in [don't get me started on the POS zipp extenders]. I figured it was a great oppurtunity to practice changing a tubbie as I had planned on doing all summer [including at IMLP]. Could not get it off. Tried forever. Took me about 20 minutes using my tool box in my basement to get the thing off. Had it been on the side of the road I would have had a Norman moment. Oh the razor blade and the "just cut through the tire and pull it off thing" ever try it? I could not cut through the tire either with the brand new blade I had taped under my seat all summer [brand new and plenty sharp] or an exacto knife with a handle on it. I still want to see a video of someone doing this. I have posted the challenge on ST a few times and had no takers. It is much harder than it sounds.
Not to be too negative about tubbies I really would like to get a set of 404 tubbies for my road bike cause they just look cool and feel super light which I know does not really matter but is still nice.
No matter what race wheels are really really fun.
Funny timing Chris as I was going to post to the forum one of these days if anyone had a rear 808 or 1080 i could borrow as both wheel rental companies I looked at how options for front only rentals, but not rear only.
I'm not sure what my wheel setup is going to be for this season yet, but I may be looking to borrow a wheel around Oct. 9th.
@ Joel: No nirvana? Well, knowing they are lighter than clinchers...that's got to have some euphoric feeling doesn't it?
@Chris: interesting about the disc with a deep front wheel being easier to handle. I might just order a front wheel 808 then and stick with my wheelcover. My guess is the wheelcovered wheel rides smoother than a disc too. NO tubulars then. Decision made. Except maybe some 202's for the roadbike...I'm too heavy for those. Who am I kidding?
Vince
@Chris,
I've had no problems changing tubular flats in the heat of "battle". Back in the day I'd simply leave a 3" section opposite the stem very lightly glued; this would allow me to roll off this section easily and get on with the change; w/CO2 I'd be under 3 minutes. Now I glue 'em up better and razor 'em off; just as fast and a bit more secure (not that I ever rolled a tubie). If it's raining I'd MUCH rather change a tubular than a clincher.
it is next to impossible to change tubular tire during a race (Ask Norman). If you cannot live with that risk then Clincher is what you need.
If you are going Tubular, you need to take a few things into account:
1) Your only realistic option to fix a flat in a race is to try Pit Stop or something similar (Tufo latex, etc.)
2) Don't worry about crr or aero dynamics (Vittoria, Veloflex etc.); get Continentals and you'll be much safer.
3) Don't train and race on the same tires - you want fresh tires for race day
and about the wight, tubulars are significantly lighter than clincher and more aero due to better tire/rim integration.
I read Todd's blog about his tubular experience. That settled it.
Vince