Power & Pace Improvement
Ok. So I have been part of the EN team for about a year now. Love the program. Fits my life perfect. I performed my FTP and Vdot test right when I joined, raced in November 2010 and went into the OS. Came out of the OS and have been working the Intermediate HIM plan and have been completing the testing as prescribed. To shorten the story, the tests were lower than the first one I did back last Sept or so and there has been virtually no improvement. All of my 2011 tests have been with a couple of watts and couple of seconds from each other. Don't get me wrong, at my age (45) I am not unhappy with those numbers necessarily but like most of us looking to get a little faster. Am I doing something wrong? Should I be doing something a little different (mixing things up)? Or ultimately, should I just shut up and be thankful I am able to more than most 45 yr olds???? I think I can handle it if the answer is #3.
Comments
How is the training feeling? Especially in the OS as you start to adjust and get faster the workouts should be easier as time goes on, and then when you have a test you'll get the FTP/vdot bump.
What were your fatigue levels like at the time of these tests? Especially as you get older, your recovery time will likely be greater, maybe you should be going in more rested.
what are the numbers? What else has changed? testing venue, body comp, etc?
Here are the numbers. Same venues each time. Weather changes obviously (temp, etc).
Oct 2010 218 Vdot 48
July 2011 205 Vdot 47
August 2 2011 211 Vdot 47
August 28 2011 208 Vdot 47
Definitely feeling the general fatigue of the workouts and lifestyle is somewhat stressful but who's isn't? I am pleased that I can hold some of the paces for longer stretches which is great but was hoping for little higher numbers. Not that big of a deal just curious if others have experienced the same thing.
Thanks for the advice!
Another thought to this involves where your head is at in terms of suffering. I know that when I'm in a good space, my ability to deal with pain and hurt for longer periods of time is there and shows when it comes to testing, racing and training. At other times, I let it hurt, but am definitely short changing myself in this area. Have you tried to do an FTP test where you can't see the watts, but can only see the time? Sometimes, what we think we can put up for a number (in watts) actually holds us back, especially if we feel the fatigue starting to creep in earlier than we expected.
Finally, how do you feel during the vo2 max sets? It might be that your roof (vo2 max) isn't high enough to promote any raising of your ceiling (FTP). Maybe see how a small vo2 max block feels, focusing on doing the longer intervals 2-3' instead of the 30/30's.
Thanks for the advice. I have thought that a downside for me in peforming the tests on the same courses is I know how it feels. I don't look at pace or watts but it's amazing how everything is virtually the same. Considering new courses to see how that would feel and see if I can get in a place to suffer a little more. As part of my ride yesterday, had 2 Z4 15' intervals and including the 4' rest my NP was 5+ watts higher than test. Definitely in a space to suffer a little more yesterday.
Gonna keep pushing!!!!
I'm 43 and I've been with EN for about 10 months: OS to IMoo plans. I've seen bike FTP climb steadily but run VDOT has stayed almost exactly the same. Gauging how I feel on workouts, I'm confident I've improved at both. I think in both cases the difference is in the execution of the test itself. I've learned better how to perform the bike testing (watching the target watts closely) and been able to make the numbers there go up, but for some reason when my mind/body knows I'm run testing I suddenly can't go as fast or as long. I wouldn't be surprised if my form actually changes - I feel tight and heavy during the test. I'll try both tests again a week or two after the race this weekend and see if the results change once the race pressure is off - i.e. nothing to lose so just go hammer it.
Keep at it and I'm sure you'll find the key. I don't believe it is an age-max yet unless you've already been an elite athlete before coming to this program (of course I'm a bit biased on that one.)
Personally, having someone to chase/stay away from on a bike test or interval workout is probably worth about 10w for me, easy.
When run testing I ask a buddy to join me who's about 10-15" faster than me for a 5k. Great rabbit.
Coach R - My problem with watching the watts closely is that my route is through a neighborhood and it is typically in the dark. It's a loop with round a bouts and some elevation change so I really struggle to keep the watts up. Definitely going to try a new route and maybe move it to a weekend where I have more time.!!
@ Dave - Would love to get any advice on a new route. Trying to do it on the designated day is tough (usually a Tues) unless I do it first thing in the am so I may move the next one to a Sat or Sunday!!
Thanks,
Joe
Here is the route Joe. If you go alone, it starts with a small climb(good to set a good base for the test, but stay controlled on it or you'll pay for it!) I like this route because its genly uphill the whole way. At the 2 miunte rest portion, backtrack for 2 minutes, then continue. That way you might not finish with the slightly downhill end. I don't like to finish a FTP test downhill. After the 42 minutes, just backtrack. Just let me know when you want to go if ya want company. My FTP is about 230 right now, so maybe I could make for a good rabbit.
Joe,
A couple other thoughts:
Your tests were Oct, July, Aug, Aug. Where was the post OS test? The Oct test would have been cooler than the 3 summer test, this could definitely slow you down with the hot weather and fatigue from the season.
Your chosen course could be another limiter. If it works better for you adjust the schedule to get in a good FTP test.
Also look at the wiki on alternate methods of determining FTP.
@Brian - In my first year coming to EN for the Nov OS, basically off the couch in July staring mountain biking, I found it hard to push the bike and run. I even split up the OS with a Nov bike start and Jan running. This helped some but fatigue did catch up to me around week 17-18.
Gordon
Get a new tesing route. Lots of turns and such is not a good place to test. You want as few variables as possible. A trainer would be better than that. It is true that often times people are unable to make big gains on both the bike and the run at the same time but to make no progress on either is very strange.
How tall are you and what to do you weigh?
It is nonsens to assume that because you are 45 you should be happy to hold those numbers steady. Lots of 45 year old guys go sub 9:30 and A 70 year old just went like 11:10 at Canada...
@Chris ; I am 5'9" 163lbs. I am going to try another route for both bike and run on the next test. The route is actually the exact same for both just multiple laps for bike vs 1 for run but definitely some elevation change. I am also with you on not settling for the numbers. I have a few friends in my age group that just seem to get faster and faster so I am not about to stop now. Current PR HIM is 5:18 and not planning on stopping until I break 5hrs!!!!
Thanks for the advice.
How much are you suffering when training and testing?
Chris,
Definitely have days where I don't feel that I suffered as much as others but usually hit the prescribed workouts and feel pretty spent. I have actually tried to go harder during intervals (both bike and run) to see if that may pick up the numbers. If workout calls for 80%-85% FTP, I have been trying to keep it at the upper range and on Monday for my 1/2 mile interval runs I pushed about 10 seconds per mile faster than Data Tool shows. Don't know if that is a good idea or not???
My two cents: over-doing the workouts by going "just a bit faster" or "just a bit harder" than the zones you've earned through racing or testing is a perfect perscription for burnout and staleness. Be fresh and strong for the important workouts; continually squeezing the lemon will flatten things out eventually. Rest is the toughest thing for a lot of us but it really is when we get fitter.
Excellent point Bill. I find that you can push a bit here and there if I focus on recovery and get some extra sleep but all the time is asking for trouble. It's a long season and remember that the FTP stuff is 95%-100%. Most of the time we forget about the 95.
Finally I was reading Mancona's blog and he had a good piece on this related to his training this year. It's a tough lesson to learn but an important one.
http://ironmancona.blogspot.com/
Gordon