Crazy Talk: applying "run-walk execution" to IM swim
Just tossing something out: would adopting the run / walk strategy for the swim lead to improved outcomes? In the normal execution model, the strategy is 'swim at the speed where you can continue to hold form for the race.' In my Crazy-Talk swim/rest model, you swim, say, at RR pace minus 5 seconds for an appropriate time interval (let's say 10min), take a 30-second virtual hang-on-the-wall break treading water, and repeat. But form doesn't atrpohy over the entire swim like the constantly moving forward model.
Aside from the obvious collision factor where you're treading water in the same space that others are making forward progress, is there anything to this approach? I found myself thinking about this during 600 (30') repeats last night, where I was keeping a pretty good pace from the first to the last intervals, and didn't see any late-set form failures that I might have experienced if I were swimming the whole thing consecutively.
(The reason I minimize the collision factor is it's a mess out there anyhow, and whether you're moving ahead or standing still, you're still getting bumped, hit, and so forth. But if resting is towards the greater good of a better split overall, it might be worth it. Or the collision factor could be mitigated by going towards more open water for the recovery interval. Or eliminated by legally grabbing a kayak - which is 100% legal.)
Thoughts? I could actually see this applying to those in the 1:00 - 1:10 window as much as it would to those in the water a bit longer.
Comments
Interesting idea though...I would agree that it makes conceptual sense.
- With the run/walk you are still moving forward, mitigating the seconds lost/distance lost by the returning rewards of not slowing down later.
- That break is spread over a longer distance and time period with running.
- Swimming doesn't have that same physical toll that running does that would cause you to slow down. Whereas running for 8 minutes and walking for 30 seconds will likely allow you to do that 26 times without any slow down of pace to say 11-16 minute miles, what's the benefit in swimming? How much time are we really talking about gaining vs. time you are spending on a break. So doing the run/walk can save you from adding hours onto your marathon time, and if you're faster it can keep you on track because you're more motivated, but I wonder how much time you'd really gain during a swim, especially as it's the first leg.
- Mentally, the run/walk gives you a boost, I'm not sure I see the boost of doing this in the water where it's nice to get into a good groove and go.
What do others think? Especially those speedy swimmers?
Just the $0.02 of. novice....
Review my "pace rut" jazz from yesterday. I think the better strategy for swimming faster is:
In my experience, these consequences are lessened if:
Oh, I forgot this one: one thing I'll do in the last couple 100m of the swim is a 2-3 sommersaults -- just a 360 degree flip turn, basically, but I'm pulling my knees to my chest to stretch my back. Worth losing ~10"
Crazy Talk!
Yep. Look behind me for a couple strokes to see if anyone is there, do a flip but grab my knees, pull them to my chest and float for a couple seconds. Repeat 1-2 more times, stretches my back a bit.
(1) You have to do it right. My preferred position is having my shoulders right on the hip of the person I am drafting off, and I mean right off the hip, not 1-2 feet away. Rich likes to be on someone's feet. Getting into the right drafting position and staying there requires practice in open water, and comfort swimming in close quarters.
(2) You have to practice the pacing strategy in training, a lot. You need to be able to process the lactic acid from the opening sprint while still swimming at a good clip, and that takes time to develop.
(3) Sometimes it doesn't work because there isn't someone swimming at the pace you want to swim. In a mass start IM swim, it's less likely but in HIMs I have been caught in no man's land, with a couple of guys swimming 25:xx (too fast) and a pack swimming 29 minutes (too slow). You need to know when the effort required to hold onto feet is too much and be willing to abandon it when necessary.
I put the guys feet next to my head, on my left side, my breathing side. I really, really, really don't like to lift my head to look for feet, sight, etc. I just look at the guy's feet when I breath and navigate by keep the same distance from them. This takes me from sighting every ~8 strokes to 20+ if the doode(s) I'm swimming with are swimming straight.
Dave,
Back to the original question of Run walk in the water. I have sort of tried this. I stroke count strong swimming for 40 strokes then back off for 20 strokes. Basically 50 yard on and 25 off. I know from seeing the buoys this is about right. As I have been building longer sets I have been increasing the strong in stroke count but keeping the easy 25 the same. It tends to build my effort to a level and then I sustain so far at about 300 strokes to 20. Which is 750 yards on and 25 yards off. Conventional thinking is 4:1 in distance and effort; that is 4 miles of running is one of swimming - its wrong I know but close enough. So I am swimming about 0.4 miles before I essentially walk my 30 steps (EN style). I plan to get myself up to 750 strokes to 25 however due to the high number I might just do counts to 300 with 10 off. Not perfect but the same idea. When I was doing 1000 intervals in the pool I got bored and came up with it. I have used it in one HIM and it kept me focused.
Thanks,
JN
I can't believe I'm digging out the science. Since swimming is a lot about pushing through a resisting body, wouldn't it be better to think of it like biking with a power meter? The advantage of riding steady watts is that is takes way less effort to maintain a constant speed than the same speed, with watts bouncing up and down. I'm guessing the same thing applies to swimming but has something more to do with the stablilization of vortex wake. (One of our fellows, John Dabiri, studies how jellyfish swim in order to understand how they produce power. That's the only reason I know anything about this.) Nerd out.
---Ann.
Thanks all. For clarity, I am definitely not planning this as my swim execution at WI!
Sadly, you've just watched this progress from Crazy Talk to Crazy Action.
Dave,
I think you are on the right track. The run walk strategy is all about recovery, same goes for the swim interval you are suggesting. Frankly I am not sure it doen't help on the bike as well. I know power is supposed to be constant with a low VI, but I think that it might be easier to maintain with less fade if there are intermitent (every ten miles) a 30 second light spin. Ultimatley a better power distribution and lower VI. On most courses this is effectively done for you when you stop pedalling over 34 MPH (rolling hills etc) and when you pee (still trying to get that right - thinking about water etc) but I still have not unlearned all my upbringing that said "don't pee in public."
I have AZ coming up and given how flat it is I might incorporate a bike spin strategy 10 miles on and 30 seconds spin. It is just hard to practice as I never practice much on flat course (going to have to find some)
Thanks,
JN
Tell yourself:
On this day nobody is going to stop me from achieving success!!!
So, to summarize:
Yes, it was 100% crazy talk. ;-)