Home Community Forum 🏠

Question - Would you do this during an Ironman?

Some of my collegues and I are putting together a research study to be done during an Ironman event. We are talking about the following:

- Doing a venipuncture and taking up to three vials of blood when racers enter T1 and T2 as well as after finishing the race.

- Doing a fingerstick at Special Needs on the bike.

- Doing a fingerstick at each aid station on the run.

My question: would you participate in a study that did these things? If not, is there one thing more than the other that would keep you from participating?

Thanks!

Comments

  • I guess the questions on my mind would be:

    1) How long would each stop take?
    2) How would losing 3 vials of blood affect me on race day?
  • Three vials of blood? Uh, no way. Fingerstick however I might consider especially if there was something in it for me (doesn't have to be monetary, could be just information- like maybe I would get some prelim results of the study and I was interested in whatever it is your studying)
  • Posted By Jeff Linkus on 06 Sep 2011 01:41 PM

    I guess the questions on my mind would be:



    1) How long would each stop take?

    2) How would losing 3 vials of blood affect me on race day?



    We think each stop will take about 5 minutes.

     

    It could be up to 6 vials (we are still getting details on the total ml). Once we have the total ml, we should know more about performance.

  • Depends on my goals and how the day is going. After I throw the towel in at my ironman last year I would have been glad to stop and help out with the study. However, when i'm racing an IM there is no way I'm stopping for even a fingerstick or giving up any blood at all.

    At $600 to do an ironman I find it very hard to help out with something like this, but if my race entry fee was wavied I would be much more willing to do an IM with the purpose of helping with a study.
  • Not a chance. I doubt that anyone seeking to podium, looking for a PR, etc., would participate. If I'm right, then the study would not represent the complete distribution of IM competitors and any conclusions would be limited to the demographics and ability levels of the participants.
  • Second Matt’s comments on it all would depend on my race goals for the day. My issue would not be the finger sticks or even giving blood but more importantly the time. We work hard to shave seconds out of our transitions.

    But with that said, I think some great learning’s can occur about endurance performance with a smartly run test with this type of data. It would be good to know the hypothesis of what is being tested.
  • The blood vials really depends on how skilled the person is at doing it. From being at the doctor's office, I've had good experiences where it has been quick and painless, and I've had the torture of having someone who can't find a vein if their life depended on it. Needless to say, the person would have to be very good. I'd be OK with the special needs finger thing, but I don't think I'd want 26 finger pricks on the run. As the run got hard, I think I might react in a not so pleasant way to someone who tries to inflict more pain on me than I'd be doing to myself at that point in the race.
  • I would not give up the time or the blood. For me, I work too hard (even being a MOPer) to worry about anything else on race day. The time, process, not knowing how giving blood will ultimately affect me.

    Having said that, if I were to go into the race with the specific purpose of participating in the study, more like a solid training day, I might consider it.
  • I have participated in many research studies- as subject and researcher. In one study I had to have my blood drawn every hour for 5 hours, 1 day per week for 3 weeks in a row. It would have been fine had the phlebotomist been proficient. But it was a nightmare- and I am not squeamish about needles. Add into that mix a wet, sweaty, anxious to get moving athlete, and you won't get what you need.

    Also, you would need a dozen phlebotomists. Even if athletes agreed to participate, they would not be willing to stand around and wait for 5-10 minutes in a line.

    SN fingerstick- no big deal.

    A fingerstick at every aid station would be a HELL NO!

    What about pre and post race blood work instead?
  • I would not be willing to give the vials of blood mostly because of the time, but partly because I don't think I want to lose a few extra oz of blood during that strenuous of a race even if you claim it won't effect me.

    I would be willing to do a finger prick at the SNs. I would also do a finger prick at each aid station on the run provided you could guarantee it would be quick and efficient. I'm talking have a separate canopy or something that I could stick my finger our as I stop for 2 seconds as I grab a water...
  • Hi Penny,

    I know I wouldn't do the vials. 

    As a diabetic, there were several places where I tested my blood sugar due to my diabetes using pin prick test strips at:

    • T1 (Glucometer in T1 bag)
    • Bike Special Needs (Glucometer in Bike Special Needs)
    • T2 (Glucometer in T2 bag)
    • Run Special Needs (Glucometer in Run Special Needs)  - placed a second mini Glucometer in waistband of tri shorts 
    • Mile 19 (pulled from waist band of tri shorts)

    Not sure what you are measuring or testing, but these spots didn't slow me down.  Less than 45 secs. for each test. 

    Best of luck

  • You will probably have to pay some entry fees...so using a non-IM brand event will probably be a must.

    I would be fine with everything other than the vials of blood in T1/T2. I have to imagine that THAT would negatively impact race performance in and of itself...

  • The average human has 5 liters of circulting blood volume.  Losing 5 mL of blood x 3, twice during the race (30 mL total) would mean nothing on performance.  That's a lot of time, though.  Considering that there is like 65 KQ spots for roughly 2500-2800 athletes (and maybe 150-200 true contenders for those), you could probably find more than enough research subjects.  I would venture to say that there are tons of people (not necessarily on our team) that want merely to finish and check one more thing off their list.  You give people an incentive, like reimbursement of part of their entry fee, and I think you could get plenty of subjects.  You get enough funding to study 2000-3000 people, you could probably knock that out in 3-5 races and have plenty of data for your purposes.  Better yet, you get funding to kick some cash back to WTC, and you could get their testing time credited back to their overall time (what's 6-8 more volunteers with stopwatches, especially if you provided them) with caveat that you cannot get a KQ slot if you participate.  But even without that, what does the average Joe Blow care if he/she ends up 187th out of 265 in their age group vs. 184th if they didn't participate.

  • I bet if you organized a training race like an IM, you'd get a ton of crazy triathletes to play along with the blood stuff!!!
  • For me,I know I'm not going to be a KQ'er (unless I'm still doing this when I'm 65+), but even I wouldn't agree to do this unless I KNEW it wouldn't impact my performance (blood volume, etc) and that it didn't take too much time (pin prick at certain spots vs vials).

    Incentivizing it ($$, PR, etc), would definitely push me off the fence.
  • Thanks everyone for your replies. We are working on what incentives will be offered as well as finalizing details. I think that a couple of team members and I are going to start carrying glucose monitors with us during our training and stopping to do finger sticks and testing so we can get an idea about how it feels, time, etc.

    I'll keep you guys posted. . .
  • I'm one of those people that faints at the sight of my own blood (they've told me that unless it's a super-emergency not to donate anymore as it's not worth it for the staff), so I'd say probably not.

    That being said, wou'd probably want to find they type of person that does 2 - 3 a year and does IM's like a stroll in the park, and wouldn't mind "throwing one away".

    What are the goals of the test? It sounds like there could be a serious "observer effecting the observed system" in play here, by having the athlete stop and give blood so often.
  • Penny,
    What about placing an IV on the forearm and using that as your "source" for the blood? I would be more concerned about initiating clotting factors during the race, plus the reduced imune response in the body post ironman could leave a person open to spepsis from multiple insertion sites. I like the idea, but adding any additional pain to an IM may be more than one could take. Good luck with your study!!!
  • What about using EN athletes if RnP do another Texas Rally Weekend in your neighborhood? You could probably get blood samples before each ride day, at mid point and after. If we did a long run Sunday, you could get other data points. Not quite a race, but lots of hard activity.
Sign In or Register to comment.