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The "Why We Don't Recommend Triathletes do Marathons" Thread

I've been working through a ton of Season Plans and I see lots of folks signed up for marathons.

We have strong ideas about marathons and their place within triathlon training, and within EN in particularly. Please see:

Thanks, just want to get everyone on the same page, or at least understand where we're coming from, from a lot of experience with this over the years.

Please post your "should I do a marathon?" questions here!

Comments

  • OK, OK, OK!!! Switching to the half.
  • I'm thinking of the Ragnar ultra as a big run weekend with bonus beach time.

  • So while I'm all in with the No-Marathon thing for the off season, but I'm slowly plotting my post-fracture repair race schedule for next year with an eye on an IM in 2013. But, with the repair of my ankle I am no longer 100% sure that I can complete a marathon. I probably can as my surgeon said no restrictions, go running. But I don't know here *taps forehead* that I can.



    I was going to work in a marathon as part of the I-Need-To-Know-Before-I-Give-IM-a-Try-Again-In-2013(tm) race tour in 2012.



    How's the feeling for a "can I do it at race intensity?" type of marathon as part of the training leading up to an IM or does every one think all the pre-IM training runs will be enough for me to get my I-Know-I-Can mojo back? Both answers kind of make sense but as I've never had to come back from an injury like this so I'm looking for input.



    Word.

  • I am running a marathon in a couple months, just got peer pressured into signing up for Philly.  I am certainly not doing it to make me faster at running in an IM.  I am doing it to purposefully handicap myself running next year to give the rest of the field a chance :-)

     

  • Dan - I have only done one IM, and I have done 2 marathons (granted, they were a long time ago). The two are almost completely unrelated and as such I think there is ZERO reason to feel that you need to 'know' you can do it. If you can complete 12 weeks of EN IM training, you could go out and run 50 miles if you wanted to do so.

    You are fine...don't waste the required recovery time post marathon, and the ability to add speed prior to that marathon.
  • Dan,

    I agree that there is no reason to run a marathon "just to make sure you can do it" going into IM.  The IM training will certainly be plenty hard enough to get you to the same place.  Also, as was mentioned running an open marathon and running off the bike in an IM really have very little to do with one another.  Very different animals although they sure sould a lot a like.  There is really nothing like [IME] getting off the bike and staring down 26.2.  It is kinda like having kids, you will never be "ready" but you will do it anyhow.  Good luck with the recovery!

  • dan:

    you can recover for sure and complete an IM race.  just don't start up to quickly with the 'build your 5km vdot runs' in the OS plan.  fast running is hard on you if you are coming back from injury.  start slow, build confidence, and then resume the normal OS stuff.

    gh

  • Posted By Gilberto Hernandez on 28 Sep 2011 02:23 PM

    dan:

    you can recover for sure and complete an IM race.  just don't start up to quickly with the 'build your 5km vdot runs' in the OS plan.  fast running is hard on you if you are coming back from injury.  start slow, build confidence, and then resume the normal OS stuff.

    gh

     

    Noted and thanks to all for the advice and it makes sense: no need to do the extra 26.2 miles. Just wasn't sure. I mean, I've got 4 IMs under my belt... but none with a repaired ankle.



    I've just started moving with a purpose again. I'm doing the 30 Runs in 30 days starting with a walk-run (4-min walk, 1-min run) for a bit so I can build up the strength in my ankle. Both it and I have gotten flabby in the last 4 months. I hope to transition to full time running and get an actual vDot for the Out Season at the end of the 30 days.

  • In Nov. 2006, after I'd already done at least 10 IMs and 5 marathons, I had foot surgery (I still have the titanium screws there). I took 6 weeks off running, started up at Christmas, and was able to do reasonably well at an IM marathon end of June. I never felt the need to confirm I could run 26.2 miles, I already knew that from the IM specific run training I was doing, comparing myself to what I could do before the surgery.

  • Coach, having set Florida 70.3 in may 2012 as my first long course ever (and BEFORE reading this thread) i signed up for a half Mary in march 2012. I FULLY get the point on your advice for triathletes no to do marathons and therefore ask if (a) the same applies to HIM/half marathons and (b) is doing The half-Mary, just for fun, without changing anything in OS EN training (except maybe for a couple days before and after the half-Mary) totally a bad idea?????
    Tks
    Juan
  • @Juan-- Half-Marys are a totally different animal than Full Marys. They don't do nearly the damage because most of the damage occurs after mile 20 or 22 at the reasonably high intensity of a Marathon. I think it's actually advisable to do a Half-Marathon at the end of your OS anyways so you should be all set with your current schedule. When you get into a full IM plan, you'll be running at least 13.1 miles every Thursday for at least 4 weeks. If you're slow(ish) like me, these long runs will top out around 17 miles or so. Even in the video posts they did regarding the late season Marathon, RnP say to "Train for the Full but do the Half". This will avoid the major recovery needed from the full mary.
  • Juan and Dan - I agree with the comments above.  No need to run a full marathon as IM prep to see if you can go the distance.  As a marathoner, I seriously doubted that the EN IM training would get me prepared for 26.2 after a swim and bike.  But I decided to trust the EN plan since I'd never done an IM before, and it worked great to prepare me for the run at IMCDA this past June.  The key to the EN IM run training is completing the intervals in the latter part of the run long run on Thursday. Don't skip those, even if you have to split them up into more numerous, shorter intervals rather than fewer, longer intervals to get them done.  This leverages the speed work from the OS and builds mental toughness and confidence that you can handle the discomfort at the end of the IM run.

    I also concurr with the comments about racing half marathons.  They are great prep since you have to be fit to do well, but the recover time is so much shorter than a full marathon (days vs weeks) that you can do them in place of a hard OS workout without screwing up your training plan.  They also give you a sound benchmark for your Vdot going into the 12 IM plan.  Many veteran ENers will race a half mary in the 12-14 weeks before an IM to have some fun and get a longer distance Vdot. 

  • I have read and absorbed everything regarding this topic and appreciate advice from those much smarter than me. I get it. Except I am still going to do the Philly Marathon in 5 weeks as long as I feel well image Next year may be different animal as may sign up for IMFL in early November '12 which would effectively prevent me from doing Philly. But I feel great and have taken now 10 days completely off from training since Kona and feel fine. In fact, the only real pain I had after Kona was the tattoo I got (!) and the mental anguish from a long-time goal actually being achieved (i.e. "now what?"). Last year I did Marine Corps Marathon and Philly Marathon 3 weeks apart (and set PR at Philly), and had no issues going into the Outseason strong after an additional week or two downtime after Philly; hopefully will be same this year. I know it makes no sense; usually a bigger guy like me you would think needs more recovery not less, but over a decade of marathons and now 1.5 years of IM training I just haven't found that to be the case. To me, the regret I would feel from *not* doing Philly outweighs any deferred potential speed gains from the OS or extra recovery time. But as always Your Results May Vary image
  • Johnathan...while I did not to Kona (CONGRATS TO YOU!)...I did IMLOU and am fired up for Philly as well....I did the same MCM/Philly two years ago....See you in PHILLY!...Interestingly since recovering from IMLOU and doing the Marathon Hack...the run focus has helped my biking....(last year the bike focus helped my run)...so I don'think running a marathon per se is inconsitent with good Tri Training...its all about how & where it fits in your training plan & cycle such that it doesn't interfere with IM traininig...I would never go back to running marathon training program as part of my IM training...but at the end of the season...after my IM "A" race...a marathon fits perfectly!  Good Luck...Philly then Boston : )

  • I ran Boston for time in 2009 (bad day) when I only planned to do HIM's and pre EN and felt it cost me significant bike fitness for approx 3 months afterwards (that is to get back to normal customary FTP). Last year I did marathon hack during JOS as I planned to do Boston only for "fun" as a long run w/ my wife who had BQ'd. I cycled up until last couple weeks before Boston and took a couple weeks of recovery post Boston yet I STILL felt I lost my edge on the bike until late June or early July despite a BBW late May.

    This year I plan to do IMCDA as my "A" race and IMF as a "B+" race and have several half mary's during the year as targets to motivate me to improve my run. I have learned my lesson and will not plan on a full mary in an IM year. Plus a half mary is much less "serious" and therefore more fun and enjoyable to me and allows me to use my limited ability to focus on a major attempt for a good race which I can realistically only manage a couple times a year max.

    Sorry to hijack the thread but congrats again to Liebs and maybe hope to see you at IMF bro!

  • Thanks guys! BTW I'm not a complete jackass about this lol - I am only using the marathon hack (ie no biking/swimming next 5 weeks), and will NOT be doing the scheduled 21 mile run next week. image
  • Posted By Jonathan Lieberman on 19 Oct 2011 11:02 AM

    Thanks guys! BTW I'm not a complete jackass about this 




    CHALLENGE!

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