Post HIM Recovery

astasic

 I fully understand the individuality of recovery length period, but would like to hear your experience in recovery time with some specific questions.

For those of you in late 30s and early 40s, after a hard HIM, no heat stress, how long does it usualy take you to be able to put out hard FTP bike intervals, T-pace running, fast and long running.

When you do return, can you somewhat quantify the losses in FTP and pace at threshold, all assuming you have not been sitting on the couch after, but following a post HIM week template in order to return to regular training ASAP in prep for another race.

Finished a HIM on 09/18. Followed the post HIM recovery week template, somewhat modified. Had a really decent swim last week, had a slower 14mi long run, had the fastest 80mi bike of the season on relatively low power the day after the run with no trouble of pushing IF .85 at the end of the ride. Sunday was off. This week feeling pretty bad so far, very flat and unable to complete any quality work. I am guessing the lagging  fatigue maybe catching up.

Thanks.

morpheus

Yep, I've seen that scenario before. Not sure if your HIM was of high priority. But, if you used a plan to peak for it then remember that we hold that peak period for a couple of weeks. Then, for most of us, the body says peak period over.

My experience....
pre EN. spent 9 months building for this long Bike/Run event. wasn't gonna race that year, just do this 300 mile charity thingy. to make this kinda short, finished that nonstop 300 miles and instead of recovering for a couple of weeks, got talked into tweaking my plans and ended up signing up for Augusta. Post Brick recovery was one week of light activity and then back into a self coached cram session for a HIM that would be 10 weeks later. (That 10 weeks would've been plenty of time had I recovered properly). So, the first few weeks of training went great....ripped the roads on the bike and group rides and ran stronger than I had in the past. Then, I noticed that about 4 weeks out from the brick, my workouts became extremely hard to even start. Got to a point where I couldn't care less. Only reason that I carried on was because my friend had donated his time to my charity brick and I felt like I owed it to him. But, those last ~6-7 weeks were textbook burnout/overtraining/lack of recovery, based on what I've read. I was aware of this particular mistake and it ended my self coaching career, up to this point. I joined EN 1 week before Augusta. I came to the realization that I wanted some guidance with this stuff. Blessed that we have the means to do so.

So, fast forward to after the race. I was pissed and disgruntled for weeks. Missed my goal by 2 min. Smarter rest might've made a difference, maybe not. I joined EN cuz I knew I could work hard but I had to find a way to recover appropriately, but micro and macro level.

Sorry for rambling.

Enjoy the peak, but listen to the body. My plan for post 'A' race (Oct 9th) is to continue doing stuff (light runs/some group rides) but to have 0 expectations on them. Feel good? Go hard. Feel like sludge? Peel off and just chill back to the house. That's my post2011 season / pre 2012 OS transition period.

talltim

@ Aleksander

FWIW, I agree with Chris and have both seen and lived this before. Unless you have major season goals for 2012 that require you to roll right on through, you will benefit from a period of unstructured training before starting the 2012 OS plan.

To your specific Q, I am 44 - nearly 45 - and have been in the sport for > 10 yrs, racing HIM most every year since 04. In my N=1 experience, you can expect to lose anywhere from 5-15% in terms of FTP and pace off your peak. Consider that you have ~ 1 week of rest for a HIM taper, and a week or so of recovery for your legs - let's say 1 day for every 2 miles you ran of the run (for IM its closer to 1:1, IMO), and you're ~ 2wks of de-conditioned before you get back to a more normal workout routine.

astasic

 Thanks to both of you.

I have Soma Half on 10/23, so I am not in unstructured mode. I went back into my logs 2009/2010 and now. It seems that after every HIM took nearlyl two weeks before being able to push the FTP ints and fast/long running again and not meltdown. I am at 10 day mark now, suprisingly, less capable than I was 6 days after. I went with light activity day 1 after, day 2 after off, day 3 and 4 light, day 5 after 14mi run that was slower and took longer than usual, I was fading, 6 days after 80mi bike ride feeling ok, day 7 off. This week feeling worse.

Yep, at 10 days after, I am guessing lagging fatigue, will do complete rest today until weekend, than will try again.

Chris, liked that rambling. I have been there myself. Makes me wonder why I even signed up for Soma being this close. I guess I was thinking I can recover in a  week, put 2 mega weeks in, taper for two and go rip it. I really thoguht I can add some to decent fitness. Branson was an A race, no doubt.

 

talltim

@ Aleksandar: I think your approach makes sense. By the weekend, assumung all else equal, you should be good to go. In my experience, doing 2x HIM 4-5 wks or less apart is kind of tough - because it's an in-between time. A little too long to ride the peak for one race, and a little too close to get real fitness boost. Having done this both ways, I've had success with 2 HIMs w/ 2 weeks between, bascally taking it very easy and riding the same fitness and also with about 8 weeks (Tupper Lake and Timberman) -- that allowed me to go back abd add a little bit of form.

I'd say that it may be too optimistic to plan 2 mega weeks in there; you may end up with 2 standard EN HIM Plan weeks at best. Recommend caution in there, as you can dig a deeper hole if you push too hard too soon, and as you noted, that comes at a high mental cost. Take the fitness you have, and roll SOMA for fun.

astasic

 Tim, very sound advice. That is a voice of reason. I will take it. Thanks.

MattAaronson

I think accumulated fatigue plays a role.

I did HIM on July 17, essentially took 5 days off, then right back at it starting with the Saturday bike, workouts as prescribed...
...leading to...
...a really great HIM 3 weeks later on August 14, after which time I took ONE DAY off, got back on the bike and did 3 days of hard workouts on the bike...
...leading to...
...major burnout and destruction of mental focus, sub-par workouts and a mediocre HIM 4 weeks later on Sep 11, and subsequently very little will to do any post-season workouts

Honestly, I don't think the recovery time was the factor. I think it was the accumulation of everything in such a compressed timeframe leading to the requirement for a "reset" that I'm doing right now.

astasic

 Thanks Matt. That really looked like a compressed schedule, 3 HIMs in a 6-8 weeks. I think that would kill me, at least as it stands now.

I just have to rest now, maybe even nothing for a day or two. It is my work week, I am on the road, several rough days 12-13 hours, early shows.......left coast, right coast back and forth.

I so wanted to attmempt my elusive 4:30s HIM. Maybe not this year again. Been trying since 2009, hoping now Soma, flat......Oh, well.

I better rest and not think about it. I am putting that  as a main objective for next year.

mikebrown

Just finished Augusta and trying to find the recovery week link. Can someone point me in that direction. Could not find it in wiki.
If I am starting the outseason in November, any recommendations what to do until then?

Thanks,
Mike

talltim

 

Mike:

 

There is transition guidance in the wiki here: https://www.box.net/shared/a9yccvkcyx

You can also go unto your Training Plan and load up a 2 wk transition in Beg/Int/Adv flavors.

Hope this helps.

Tim