VDOT Pace differences between DT and Online calculators

Gene

 Hi all, 

I'm new to EN, but I have dabbled in an outseason plan a few different times.  I had previously calculated my vdot using the testing protocol of a flat 5K road test.  Now using a member perk, I entered the results into the Data Tool.  The appropriate paces for training differ from the Jack Daniels website.  (http://www.runbayou.com/jackd.htm)  The differences grow further apart in the higher speed intervals.  Is there an explanation for this?  I guess I'll just keep with the faster paces.  Any advice?  

JD: EP=8:58, MP=7:40, HMP=7:10, TP=6:32, IP=6:08 min/mile.

DT: 

Run Zones


Zone
HR
Pace


Z1/EP:

< 154


8:57



Z2/MP:

155-164


7:40



Z3/HMP:

165-173


7:22



Z4/TP:

174-180


7:12



Z5/IP:

> 181


6:46

Thanks for your help and concern.

Gene 

 

irahelp

Its because Daniel does not consider you being on the bike before you run. So coaches have made adjustments to reflect that.

MattAaronson

Personally I don't use the EN data tool because of the confusing "site within a site" way to access it. I use Attackpoint on the web or the FEXY app on my iPhone. The only issue is that in EN workouts z3 is defined as HMP, which you need to calculate based on the output of a calculator (although FEXY does that for you). Also in EN the z5 is generally 5k pace not IP.

tuckerm

Gene, what is your 5k time? I haven't tested in awhile but it looks your pacers are exactly what my paces are in the data tool. Then I go to the runbayou site and enter 20:55 into the calculator. Paces are basically the same. The runbayou site does not have a HMP. If you notice the TP is basically the same for both. 7:12 vs 7:10. Yes the IP is a little higher here. That has been discussed here I just don't remember why.
And no the paces have not been adjusted because we have to run off the bike. We run at Daniels paces just like runners.

Gene

 Hi Stephen, 

Thanks for your help.  I realized that I was making a user error.  I thought Zone 3 from JD was a mirror image of the EN Zone 3.  But that is where I was wrong.  EN's Zone 3 is a "HMP" when I converted my Half Marathon Race time to Mile/min they are equal.  Tucker makes some good points that are further dwon the thread.  

 

Thanks, 

Gene

Gene

 Hi Matt, 

I agree that the "site within a site" is awkward.  I don't really like using it either.  I found another good i phone app that I have been using.  The free app is called "fit2run"  there are two versions, one of which is way better than the other.  They appear the same in the app store, but you'll figure it out if your interested.  I do appreciate your help.

Thanks, 

Gene

Gene

 Thanks for your insight Tucker.  My 5K time is 21:02.  I'm hoping to go under 19:30 in my next test, 4 weeks away!  I need to keep running.  

tuckerm

19:30? That's quite a jump from 21'. Best of luck. The current DT may not be great now but I think RnP are working to upgrade that.

Coach Patrick

Yes, new DT is in the works....this one is currently from 2007...thanks for your patience!