Home General Training Discussions

Advice on going Joule

After the Epic Aspen IMAZ Training Camp and all the talk about power, TSS, IF, and WTF, I'm thinking of going Joule.  I'm currently running a SRM V.  I have training wheels and a set of really nice EDGE carbon race wheels.  I see my choices as: get a PT/Joule/wheelcover combo, or get my rear EDGE rim built with a PT in it. I have a hard time getting my head around training on race wheels.  Getting a seperate PT/carbon wheel is getting a little expensive and I'd probably go Quarq then.  Thoughts/advice?  

On one hand, I can ride in a zone on the SRM and get IF and TSS from WKO later, or get it real time on the joule. Is having all the info a Joule can give worth making the switch?    I'd still race the Front EDGE and from what I've read, the front wheel really makes a lot more difference in speed compared to the rear.

Thanks for the input!

Comments

  • Kurt

    I have a quarq on my tri bike and a powettab on my road bike.
    This week end I will put the pt on eBay and get a quarq for the road bike
    I have found that to be a better solution since it allows you to keep power while riding different wheels.
    Buy quarq or wait for new garmin power meter!
  • I have a PT/Joule combo and just move my PT wheel with me when moving from my tri bike to my road bike.
  • Kurt, are you running a wired or wireless SRM? Wireless SRM are ANT+ no? If it's wireless you can just go buy a new head unit such as a Joule or a Garmin Edge. Ok, well regardless of whether your SRM is wired or wireless, you asked about a Joule. What is your time frame? The reason I ask is because Saris is going to be releasing a new Joule in November. $169 versus the current $350.
    Another option for a head unit is a Garmin device. They will be getting the WKO power metrics shortly. And they are working with the Training Peaks folks to ensure what you see on your device is exactly what you see when you download to WKO. The devices you will be able to use are the Edge 500, 800 and the Forerunner 310xt and 910xt.
    My point is that unless you really need to see real-time metrics right now, you would be best to hold off on a new bike computer. Prices will be going down. New features added. Would having all that data at your fingertips be helpful, of course. I can't wait for Garmin to release a firmware update for my Edge 500. But if I didn't have one, and with the OS coming up, I don't think I would really need to see those metrics. To me it is more helpful for outdoor riding. The OS workouts are precisely planned and I just watch the numbers so I know where I am on the intervals.
  • Kurt - my bottom line for you: stick with what you have if the SRM and its head unti are still functional.

    Your SRM V is not ANT+ compatible, as I understand it, so you would have to spend $$$ to get a whole new set up in order to have the marginal/questionable advantage of real-time IF and normalized power.

    I almost never look at the TSS on a ride or in a race. I do look primarily at the current watts I am riding, and secondarily at the real-time IF  (which is bascially the same as NP, just a % of FTP, instead of a raw number) of the interval in which I am riding. I have only had my PT + Joule for 9 months (plus about a week last Sept). So I did 5-6 years of training and racing with power with a cheesy iBike power meter, and had pretty good results nonetheless, just watching my current watts.

    Learning how to ride steadily at a specific effort level is the key to IM training and racing success. No set-up will give us real time VI, which is the metric which related to steadiness - the Joule or any other new head unit won't help with that. Smoothing the watts display (if possible on the SRM) to a rolling 5-10 second average is what helps there.

    Finally, remember our own Coach Rich used your set up for years as he trained, raced, and developed (with Patrick) the principles which we use in EN.

  • Posted By Gunnar Pritsch on 05 Oct 2011 11:10 PM

    Kurt



    I have a quarq on my tri bike and a powettab on my road bike.

    This week end I will put the pt on eBay and get a quarq for the road bike

    I have found that to be a better solution since it allows you to keep power while riding different wheels.

    Buy quarq or wait for new garmin power meter!

    Do you have that much money that you can afford two different Quarqs?

    I have two bikes (TT and road) that I switch my Quarq between all the time.

    Isn't it cheaper just to buy a 8mm allen/hex wrench and learn how to switch between the bikes? Just my $.02.



     

  • @ Al, thanks. That was the info and advice I was looking for. @ Gunnar, like Steve said, it takes about 5 minutes to swap cranks between 2 bikes.
  •  I am probably going to order a quarq soon.  Waiting to sell the computrainer.  That has been the easy decision.  The difficult one is the computer.  What unit is best seems to be determined by who is responding!  I don't have a garmin watch, so the idea of getting a 910xt is compelling for running purposes as well.  But will it tell me TSS or FTP real time?  Are those things as a newbie I need?  I have never trained with power, but the idea of seeing real time rather than after the ride seems like a positive.    I admit I am not much of a techno junkie.  I would probably keep track of the numbers, but doubt I would track it beyond noting my power, tss and ftp.  Is the Joule the right buy or the garmin?  I have an Mac at home.  I have heard it is an issue with downloading on some of the devices.  I would appreciate any advice, I start the OS in November!

    Thanks to everyone in advance!

    Mike

  • Posted By Michael Brown on 07 Oct 2011 06:46 PM

     I am probably going to order a quarq soon.  Waiting to sell the computrainer.  That has been the easy decision.  The difficult one is the computer.  What unit is best seems to be determined by who is responding!  I don't have a garmin watch, so the idea of getting a 910xt is compelling for running purposes as well.  But will it tell me TSS or FTP real time?  Are those things as a newbie I need?  I have never trained with power, but the idea of seeing real time rather than after the ride seems like a positive.    I admit I am not much of a techno junkie.  I would probably keep track of the numbers, but doubt I would track it beyond noting my power, tss and ftp.  Is the Joule the right buy or the garmin?  I have an Mac at home.  I have heard it is an issue with downloading on some of the devices.  I would appreciate any advice, I start the OS in November!

    Thanks to everyone in advance!

    Mike

    @Mike, for someone like yourself, I would think the either the Garmin 310xt or 910xt would be perfect.  You would have one device for everything.  Both will show real time IF, TSS, NP, etc.  Plus with the 910xt it will track your swims indoors.  The 310 will probably receive a cheaper price with the 910 coming out in about a month.  My opinion is if the 910 delivers as advertised, it is the ultimate gadget for a triathlete. 

    The 910 will not be available for the start of the Nov OS.  Also, the Garmin devices do not show real-time power metrics yet.  They will soon.  Having said that, I do not think that means buy a Joule.  I don't think you need real-time IF and NP in the OS.  Well if you are on a trainer I mean.  You are holding a pretty steady power and for finite intervals so I don't think those are necessary for the OS.  Cool to have but not necessary.  I got to the point last OS of getting off the bike and saying what my IF was for the intervals and was really close, like .001-.002 off.  

    If you do decide to go with a Joule, please keep in mind that Cycleops is releasing new versions of the Joule to compete with Garmin in November.  They will have a non-GPS version for around $170 and a GPS version maybe $50 more.  Basically over half off the current Joules floating around now.

  • One thing to be aware of with the new Joule is that it only limited lines of data, not the same amount of data as the 2.0 screen. Even the Cycleops rep I talked to last week told me he'd be sticking with the 2.0 when the new ones are out.
  • Jan bought a Joule and used it for today'a RR. She really liked all the info. I'm going to stay with my SRM. I can use the PT/Joule if I want more info. I guess you could call it the family Joule.
  • Thanks Dave, Tucker and Kurt,
    I am probably going to go with the Joule as well. I gave the garmin watch some thought but realized that with the numbers on the watch being so small it would be tough to see them when racing. Mounting it would not be an option either during races.
    Thanks again,
    Mike
  • @Michael: There is a quick release mount for the Garmin 310XT which works well with racing, particularly using the same watch for swim, bike, and run. I use my 310XT with my SRM (wireless, originally with PowerControl VI computer). Pretty easy to see the numbers and easy to customize your view in terms of which numbers you like to look at.
  • Comment on Garmin 310 XT "Quick release": I know of at least two racers who lost their 310 XT during the swim - sank to the bottom of the lake after getting jostled/knocked off by another swimmer. 

  • Al, I couldn't agree more. I have a 310XT and use the original non-quick release strap for that very reason. I have just bought a powertap with Joule 2 head unit which I'll use for training and racing (wheel covers on for racing). I'll also have my 310XT on for continuity but it'll mainly be used for overall time and all the data I need for the run. I'm entirely new to training with power so it's going to be an informative and ,hopefully, steep learning curve!
  • i cannot find the other thread that discussed this, has there been any news as to if the 310XT will receive an updte that will include IF & NP? i think the latest was that this would NOT be happening :-(
    what is the least cost effective way to get NP & TSS?
    trying to outfit the GF...
  • @Scott do you mean most cost effective? Cheapest? Or most expensive. Thinking you mean cheapest.
    Well whenever the new Joule without GPS comes out that should be your cheapest option. Or if you want GPS I'd go with the Edge 500 from Garmin. Metrics coming this month. So they say.
    And nothing for the 310. Shitty move on their part!
  • Also: if it matters, I've found the battery life of the Joule to be distressingly short: 14-16 hours, at most. No good for the lunatics among us that like to go long.
  • Bill - I'll go 14 hours with you but 16 hours is just nutty!

  • Posted By Jim Moss on 11 Jan 2012 02:24 PM

    Bill - I'll go 14 hours with you but 16 hours is just nutty!



    Jim: as you well know, I've taken to riding brevets. 400k+ takes me over 16 hours, not to mention the really long stuff(1000-1200k). If you'll go 14 hours, how about a leisurly 300K? 

Sign In or Register to comment.