Beach to Battleship HIM: Pacing, Transition, TSS
Also Im totally lost on this transiton setup: Bikes located in one part of the city after the swim and come back to another part of the city for T2. for the run. What are the transition bags suppose to have in for each location. Are we swimming with Trisuit underneath the wetsuit, which will be totally soak for the bike/run when the temp is going to be around 50-60 degrees if lucky. Or is it at T1, we get out of wetsuit and then dress for the bike. Then when we arrive at T2 which is 10 miles away, we change out again, with running cloths? Its not a typical transition, where you go back to the same place for T1 and T2.
Where do most people put their power meter? I do not feel comfortable in leaving my Garmin 800 on the bike overnight? Not to find it on the bike the next morning?
Im still lost on this TSS? So Im still unsure of my percent of FTP should be? I do not know what my expectation time should be in finishing the bike split , as I have never done HIM. Hence TSS goes out the door in part of doing the calculation?
I have a VDOT number of 45.7: So what run pace am suppose to run at for the race?
I have done all the training, so these are my questions I need help in, before I blow it all up?
Comments
On the IF of the ride, what did you do on your Race Sim rides? How did you run off those efforts? There is an HIM execution guide in the wiki that speaks to this stuff.
On the Garmin - just snap it in race morning?!?
On the run - again - that is in the HIM race execution stuff and based on your Race Sims they have this guidance in there as well.
@ Stephen, yeah split transitions are a pain, but they are workable. As mentioned above the wiki has check lists for T1, T2 and everything else you can think of.
My short version would be:
T1 bag should have in it what you need for the bike (depending on race could be shoes, helmet, sunglasses, socks if you need etc.) given the temperature you will be starting I would swim with trisuit under wetsuit, put a small towel in T1 bag and then also put in a windbreaker made for riding. HIM races don't always/usually have changing tents and wedging your cold butt in a portalet to change all the way when you are cold and wet is not going to be fun (I have tried it.
T2 bag, would have running shoes, socks, sunscreen if you need that. I have taken to putting in a gel and water bottle for split transition races as I have finished the bike expecting to grab a gel and water in transition, only to find out there was nothing there.
The thing to getting more prepared and relaxed about split transitions or transitions at all is to use a check list and "practice" running through it once or twice before hand.
Back when I was fast and in danger of placing, my wife used to laugh when I set up a transition in our driveway and would spend an hour transitioning after drenching myself with the hose.
Good luck!
My Rev3 HIM (S.Carolina, this Sunday) is using 2 different transitions, about 4 miles apart.
Setting up T2 and T1 on Saturday. Minus any drinks/supplements/Joule.
Then on Sunday morning, will go to T2 first and finish that setup. Then shuttle to T1, finish this setup, then get ready for the swim start. Rev3 is providing bags for each, plus a bag to dump morning clothes in (once I'm ready for the swim) and a bag that I'm supposed to dump wetsuit and goggles into after the swim before I head out on the bike. That'll add some time. As I'm out on the bike, Rev3 is going to take both of my bags from T1 to the T2 area for pickup after the race, eliminating the need to go back to T1 after the race. So, in T2, after racking the bike, the go run stuff will look like normal race day and off we go. Sounds complicated but I don't think it will be that big of a deal for us or for you.
I'll let you know how it goes in my report next week.
Good luck in Wilmington.
What percent of FTP shows the best resutls for HIM?
I did B2B HIM last year. It is somewhat confusing! Be sure to go to the course talk. You'll drop off your bike the day before but don't need to set-up T1 except for that. We drove over to the battleship on Friday afternoon - to check it out as well, which was really helpful. They should have the racks and numbers set up by then. On Saturday morning, you'll drop your T2 bag off at T1 (don't go to T2 to do this). You'll also set up your T1 at this time (and can bring your Joule then). Take the shuttle to the swim start (it's okay to bring some warm clothes - there's a drop bag). After the swim, there's a long run from the yacht club to T1. There is no change tent for HIM athletes (only full IM athletes). Yes, bring something warm (arm warmers, long-sleeve jacket), depending on the weather - if it's nice, hopefully it will warm up fairly quickly. You'll pack up all of your T1 stuff in a bag before you leave T1 for the bike - it will be brought to T2 for you. Basically, when you finish, all of your stuff will be there.
If the water is cold (which it was last year), neoprene booties and cap were invaluable. We also got in the water by where the full IM start was - did this two days in a row before the race to get familiar with how cold the water was. Not sure how comfortable you are with cold water swimming ... we got a great tip ... walk in a little ways, stick your face in the water and blow fully out. Head out, catch your breath and do two more times. First time gives you an ice cream headache but by the third time your more comfortable. Also, put vaseline on our lips - otherwise it seemed like the salt water ran into our mouths (yuck).
Bike course is pretty flat (although I live out by the IM Wisconsin hills).
Hope this helps and have a great race!
Sue
@ Patrick, If I did 78% of FTP, would this generally equate to a better run or im I giving up a lot of bike time?
Stephen:
I just did Bike RR on Saturday. I was holding about 80% of FTP of 220. However my run after that was so terrible on trying to run 6 miles or one hour as required. I had to stop several times and ended not doing the 6 miles. That run pace was based on my new VDOT numbers, and I see Patrick indicated that I need to use old VDOT numbers. Even with those numbers I legs were so heavy. I ended up doing 67 miles, cause of missing turn. So two things come to mind, after reading some notes on WIKI, I should of use 95% of FTP for training number, but I did not during training for the last 10 weeks.
Since I felt bad off the bike, I ihinking I should use 220 times 95% would be 209 and then 80% of 209 would be 167.. Maybe this should be my starting point on racing. Cause 80% of 220 is 176 and I have not had any 3 hr bike rides averaging over that number and having to run one hour plus.
I feel like all my pacing numbers having gotten weak lately, starting in week 15. Cause my VDOT number went up and it was difficult maintaining those new paces. Then running off the bike in those new numbers were probably causing a lot of fatique.
Also, I had been training 10 weeks before the 20 week started with Trainright program, before I started endurance nation.
If I did not have to run after the bike, I would old numbers of a 230 I did with Trainright.
Whats your thought
There is not one page, webinar that has not been read, listen, etc
It's hard to determine using the HIM TSS calculator unless you post how long it took you to do your RR ride. That's why I asked above. You'd have to be riding about a <2:45 to be selecting 80% FTP as your number. So why did you select it? Everyone is different, there is no magical % number that works for everyone as it depends on how long that ride is supposed to take you to determine if your TSS is too high that you are going to booger the run. Download the TSS calculators from the wiki and check them out based on your estimated bike time which is based on your RR. So if it took you 3 hrs to do 56 miles, you'd be aiming for about 78%, but if it took you just 5 more minutes to do 56 miles, 78% is now likely too high. You need to use the TSS calculator and apply your time and performance data to find the right number.
@Jennifer, I really don't understand how to interpet, this TSS score. I would say it took about 2:40 to do 56 miles. This includes stop lights, stops, traffic that was about to kill us. Dogs chasing me. I have been training for the last 13 weeks at 80% of 230. Average watts on these long bike rides on Saturdays were about 170 but those were group rides, so drafting was involve as well. But we were only required to do about 30 min on the run their after. I did fine off the bike then, (weeks 4-13)
Im just wondering if accumulative fatique is setting in. As stated before, the last 4 weeks I had a new VDOT, which was forcing me to run a faster paces. Hence, I was trying to maintain these faster paces, so it seem to be more High intensity workouts. For example my easy pace went from 9:57 to 9:07 and zone 4: went from 7:42 to 6:47. Marathon pace went from 8:55 to 7:48. So these new numbers were tough to work through. Some days I can do these numbers for the plan workouts, other days I can't.
So Patrick indicated to someone else, that if race is a couple of weeks out, I should go back to old VDOT numbers. and pace off of those.
Im wondering how much do I loose or gain by going slower on bike and gain on the run or vice vers.
Thanks
Stephen,
Several members have stepped into the 2 threads you have started about this race to help you figure out how to pace your HIM. Please help them help you by taking advantage of the materials we have created for you to help you learn how to pace a half Ironman.
Please read and digest all of the links on the Half Ironman Race Execution Guide here.
Go get you up to speed very quickly (but to not absolve you from reading and digesting the materials above), tell me:
Thanks.
If you are having trouble with new paces close to the race you should definitely race at what you think you can hold. You can always increase the pace in the second half of the run if you're feeling good.
2:40 is a pretty solid bike for a HIM. At that speed you really shouldn't be racking up much TSS at 80%. Naturally you could fall outside the norm and need to back down, but with all the 80% riding in the plan I'd be surprised that this is the case. I think it's likely that your FTP is wrong.
When you look at the TSS chart you'll see the range in which you'll have a good run based on your % and bike time. The higher the TSS of your ride, the more likely you won't have enough left for the run. Generally, once your TSS gets in the 197-211 range, you'll probably struggle on the run, and over 211-213ish you likely overcooked the bike and will booger the run.
FTP at 200 first test: Second Test: 210,
However I have been training for the last several months(3), with a incorrect entry on the Garmin 800 unit from Bike shop of 230 as FTP. So I have been training at 80% of that number and using Zone 4/5 of that number as well. But my testing was at 200 and 210.
2 times 20 min
Garmin 800, Sram Red with Quarq is the cranks with the Cinco Quark power
VDOT: Second testing was 45.64: First Test: 40.09 VDOT: I used the website under data tool
My goal would be to do bike part in 2:45 and have a great run! Is this possible.
My best half Marathon was 1:46, which is the same course as the HIM.
Im still don't have a complete understanding of this TSS? Based on the charts I can be at 78% to 81% for this time goal. What i don't competly understand, is that a variable of everyone FTP is applied to those percent equates to the same time. For example if I have a 210 FTP at 78% vs someone at 250 at 78% equates to the same time frame? A little confusion.
Also I notice that looking at power meter files. That my runs were great after the long bike rides, because they were group, hence drafting.. So mostly intervals during these rides. With averaging power 148-180 for these 3 hr group rides. So I had more fresh legs, since drafting was involved. It was better to be safe with a group, than get hit by car. The Sunday rides were by myself, and I did achieve 80% of 230 all the time. As well as all biking during the week.
Since I have bragging about Endurance nation, I don't want to be a flunky!
Forget comparing FTPs between people, IF standardizes things across different body sizes.
Now, your question, will two people riding the same 56 mile course at the same IF have the same time? Probably not, for at least two reasons:
• There may be a difference in the "steadiness" of the ride, as measured by the Variability Index (VI). Lower is better. A person with a high VI will be surging more, coasting down hills, etc, and generally not setting himself up will for the run. And this may produce a higher Normalized Power relative to average speed. So a higher VI often means a slower time, given the same NP for the ride.
• There may be differences in aero position and aero wheels, helmets, etc. Two people with the exact same IF and VI on the same course may still be different in verall speed. The one with a poorer aero position, lacking a disc wheel or cover, lacking an aero helmet, not taking fulol advantage of legal drafting, etc, will go slower. He's using more of his watts to overcome air resistence, which is by far the biggest force he is trying to overcome on his bike.
So it's not an exact science, which is why you should use YOUR experience in the race rehearsal and other training rides or races to SWAG your time for race day. Then look across that time's row to the green boxes, and look up to see the IF you should be riding at. Then try to ride as steady as posible on race day.
If I were you I would ride at 75-78% of 210 so 157.5-163.8.
Your EN suggested pace for the first 3 miles will be MP + 30" so for you that would be 8:17. Then after those 3 miles you lower it down to MP if you can. You may even want to go slower if you have been having a hard time holding your paces.
Now I would look at the data tool again to verify your paces because I think you may be training at the wrong paces.
Not sure what the problem is with 800 but you need to get that fixed.
Stephen:
Great answer, to all.
As you may know, I am very number person and goal setting person. I guess this comes with my job in managing $100 million of assets for clients, So I believe in planning the strategy ahead of time, even though I can not control other elements. Like I cannot control the stock market, I just want to have the most effecient game plan that is available for any sports.
This reminds me a lot like the movie "MoneyBall" Everything was calculated with algorithm's , but they still could not control the other team. So the calculated measure of power, pace, nutrition hopefully gives me highest probablity of success! While others are others are SWAGing!
....ok. But please read and digest the race execution resources in the Half Ironman How-To page I posted.