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Troy Jacobsen advocating low-volume training

 Seems to oscillate between being very EN-like, and then not

http://coachtroyjacobson.blogspot.c...onman.html

 

I guess I'm wondering how you would go about implementing this advice.  If you're doing the limited hours thing, how are you also doing a bunch of base training / aerobic threshold stuff?  Doesn't that just end up meaning you're training less than you could have?

Mike

Comments

  • I read the article on FB...I thought the same thing! Hmmmmmm.....I think I will stick with EN Kool-aid, thank you very much!
  • I would never trust someone who said this: "We are all born with a certain number of cylinders and it’s our goal as endurance athletes to maximize the horsepower they can generate. Come to grips with the size of your engine and do your best with it." I have never lived by the principal that "I can't do that" why would I start now? Seems like this is so he can use the excuse that it's your genetics holding you back and not his training program. The overall theme that you have to learn what works for you to define your training seems very vague. Oh and training year round would drive me batty. Especially if he wants me to do lots of two-a-days...yeah not so much...ick.
  • As one that does use his bike videos pretty often in the winter here in WI, and so I know that he can work you pretty hard, and knowing that he is not much younger than me and just did a sub 9:25  at  Kona so he must be doing something right, I must admit that I was intrigued with this most recent article. I wonder if he actually lives by what he says himself or if he does something different himself? I would love to see his actual training plan, and am curious too if he really does it all out year round. But his results are  not bad. Just shows that really what matters is what works for each of us individually. The reason that EN works for those of us here is because it is right for each of us given our own personal situations. I suspect that like me, most of us  have tried other programs and with not much success. Otherwise we would still be doing them. EN works for me because it is a good solid program and philosophy that is well thought out, and it is right for someone like me that runs 2 different million dollar plus businesses and has kids and a real life and does this for fun and health and the camaraderie of all the people here. But I cannot say that Jacobson does not have good things to say. It is that is jsut not right for me.

  • He sat behind me on the flight out to Kona, from Phoenix. We got introduced and he wasn't like "Endurance Nation, oh yeah..."....but he has to know who we are. He is a special case having been a pro for many years and training like one..and he's 6'1" and about 165 which helps too! That said, Maura (my wife) hit the FB post to say it sounded very EN like....hey the more folks saying what we do is right the better...cuz no one does it better!!! image
  • It just seems like a mishmash of popular IM training tips.  I especially don't like the shorter, more frequent workouts advice.  It is a MUCH better use of my time to go to the pool twice a week for 4000 yard sessions than it is to go 4 times for 2000.  Four trips to the pool is twice the admin time for the same workout time.  Even as I prepare for this weekend's 70.3, I can barely bring myself to do less than 3000 per session.

    Same for the bike.  If I'm going to go through the process of suiting up for a ride, I'm not going for less than an hour, even if it's indoors.  

    His success and speed as a masters athlete is irrelevant to us since he is a former pro.  He has decades of huge base building in the bank already.    

  • I read that he broke 3 hours for the IM run for the first time (last year?) ever. He was injured from a bike crash I think but the net was that because he was still recovering from those injuries, he could do his "usual" volume on the bike and run.

    When I read that at the time, I wondered which bit he didn't get?
  • I agree that's it's a mishmash of a lot of things but I think it also has some elements that I think a reflective coach with a lot of years in the business, with age groupers as customers, is going to come around to.

    A couple notes (and maybe I'll write something more comprehensive in the next couple days):

    • EN plans aren't "that" low volume, certainly not our IM plans, not when you do the math on our weekly training hours. I think everyone focuses on the low volume of the OS plans, maybe the HIM plans, but when you lay our IM plans next to others out there, I think the weekly volume we have you folks doing isn't "that" much different than other training plans. I think the difference, however, is in the long event volume: we have you running 2.5hrs, not 3hrs, for a reason(s). We have you riding 4hrs on Saturday and 3hrs on Sunday, not a 6hr Saturday ride and 3hr Sunday run for MANY reasons.
    • Those reasons are the result of two experienced guys with a lot of time punching the clock themselves, a lot of data points, sitting back, reflecting on what they've learned, and doing things differently from how it "should" be done...because we've learned the should way is wrong or doesn't tell the whole story.
    • Troy hints at it but the more I think about how we do business here, the more I see that a focus on ROI is the core, unifying principle of how age groupers should be training and be coached by coaches. He touches on it with his talk of diminishing returns but I like Return on Investment much better.

    Anyway, more later. I'll take the Boyz for a long walk tomorrow, or clean the garage, and jam something out in my head

     

     

  • Posted By Rich Strauss on 18 Oct 2011 10:29 PM
    • EN plans aren't "that" low volume, certainly not our IM plans, 

     

    They are if you drop it down to 2 swims/week and only do every other Sunday ride...



     

  • Posted By Bill McKinney on 18 Oct 2011 10:54 PM
    Posted By Rich Strauss on 18 Oct 2011 10:29 PM
    • EN plans aren't "that" low volume, certainly not our IM plans, 

     

    They are if you drop it down to 2 swims/week and only do every other Sunday ride...



     





     

    Haha, actually I think this is true.  Even by not being able to a complete plan, you are still set up for a successful race based on the TSS you are accumulating, which I think is difficult in plans that focus on just long and slow, cause if you miss too much of that you're pretty much screwed.

     

    I agree the IM plans are pretty much the same in hours.  The main difference I always notice, is that traditional plans have you working out tons of hours in a week months and months before your event, which is really draining.  Having the OS be short but hard makes the change to the IM plans that much easier to handle without driving you batshit bonkers before your race.

  • While I wasn't an official member of Troy's academy in Baltimore, I did participate in a lot of of activities he ran in the community and had a lot of interaction with him and his coaches when I lived in Baltimore. They are all pretty stand-up guys and he is genuine. When I was there he used to coach a Masters Swimming group ($2/drop-in fee), weekly track-work out (free), and weekly Spinervals sessions ($2). At the same time he was charging $$$$ for private coaching he was simultaneously doing almost exactly the same thing free for locals. Seemed to do equally well with the high-end folks (he was coaching Joanna Zeiger in the Olympics/Kona at the time as well as working with Amanda Gillam who is now Amanda Lovato) and age groupers. Always brought a ton of enthusiasm to everything he was doing which probably explains his success.
  • He is a pretty smart dude. Some of his stuff is hard to decode without full access to his plans/coaching. A lot of it mirrors what we do here we just use a little different nomenclature and without being sure on when he times his stuff it is hard to say when he advocates to do some of his frequency type challenges.
    We call this focusifying or a big bike/run/training week volume etc.
    http://coachtroyjacobson.blogspot.com/2011/06/three-breakthrough-strategies-to-set.html

    We have things like a 50 miles in 50 days swim challenge 30 runs in 30 days.

    The one thing he definitely understands is how to kill yourself inside on a bike in about an hour.




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