Cyclops G3 vs Zipp Firecrest
I've been drinking more of the Kool-Aid lately and it's tasting better! So I'm thinking of getting a Powertap in a wheel set next year and am wondering if anyone has seen any wind tunner data on the Cyclops G3? The alternative is having the next generation Powertap built into a Firecrest 808. Zipp's 808 patent expired in 2009 and they don't have a patent on the Firecrest at the moment (they are trying). So other manufacturers can now use the hybrid toroidal shape (yes, I read this in Inside Tri). Point being is that Zipp may soon lose the technical edge. I saw that the G3 w PowerTap weighs less than the Firecrest without, but I haven't read anything on how it performs in the wind tunnel. Comments?
@ Matt Ancona...would love to hear your viewpoint here!
Comments
I can tell you I've been on Firecrest 808 clinchers for this entire year and I love them. The 808 FC handles crosswinds great and some much better than the old 808s. I rode the 808s with a wheel cover in every race i did this year and never had an issue with wind and I weight ~137 lbs. I was always fine with my old 808, but I got pushed around and had to fight the wind much more than I do with the FC. After my first race with the 808 FC, I sold my old 404s, 808s and 900 disc as this one wheel set replaced all of them. As you can tell the improved handling of the FC wheels is what I consider to be the biggest benefit.
I do think other companies will always continue to copy Zipp's (or HEDs) innovations and bring the price down though. It's pretty widely agreed the the Zipps are the best but you will pay a premium for them and another less expensive wheelset may get you 95% of the benefits and only cost you 50% as much. You have to decide it you are willing to pay up to twice as much to know you are buying the best.
In full disclosure, Before I was sponsored by Zipp I would not have bought their wheels at full MSRP...however that I have been riding many of their different wheels for 2 years I love them and am probably hooked enough that I would actually spend the money on them as my fitness numbers are going up much anymore and I'm starting to count seconds. FWIW, I train on 101s and race on 808 FC CCs with a wheel cover.
Matt is dead on- if you have the $$$ you'll never regret an 808FC rear with a PT built in and maybe a wheel cover.
I've ridden everything under the moon and it's hard to beat Zipp quality and speed.
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... former F1 engineer Simon Smart is indeed one of the most respected aerodynamicists in the industry. I had a chance to meet the man in his home turf, the Mercedes GP wind tunnel outside of London, during a the recent launch of the Scott Foil aero road frame. He and his Drag2Zero team played a key role in that project, as well as a number of others you’re likely familiar with. HTC-Highroad’s super fast skinsuits, for example, are a Smart design, as is Giant’s Trinity TT frame.
The front rim is 60mm tall and 26mm wide, the rear is 70mm tall and 24mm wide. Don't be surprised to see that SMART System logo crop up more and more within the industry.
At the Scott launch I handled a pair of un-labeled 6.7’s on Smart’s personal bike, and got a quick lowdown on what makes them special.
The innovation comes in three major parts. The first, and most obvious, is the aforementioned front/rear specificity. No other major wheel manufacturer is designing entirely different rim shapes for each wheel. It is common to pair a shallower front wheel with a deeper rear, but using a wider front and narrower rear is unique. Smart explained that the airflow seen by each wheel is so different that it only makes sense to adjust shape accordingly.
The second is ENVE and Smart’s focus on stability. Zipp and HED already spend quite a bit of time worrying about stability in crosswinds, and have developed shapes that are perceptibly more controllable than their older wheels. Zipp’s Firecrest 808 rim shape, to take one example, feels very similar in crosswinds to the much shallower pre-Firecrest 404. That’s an incredible achievement with a rim that is more than 30mm taller. The fact that the shape of the 6.7’s appears, to the naked eye, to be extremely similar to the Firecrest shape (wide all the way to the spoke bed) is not a coincidence — we know it works.
But ENVE isn’t just copying existing technology. Smart’s claim to stable fame stems from his intimate knowledge and extensive time in the Mercedes GP wind tunnel. He used the knowledge of transient (unsteady) aerodynamics gained in his years as a Formula 1 engineer and applied the concepts to race wheels.
Smart designed a way to measure steering torque in response to changing crosswinds, and used this data to design a rim shape that reacts most favorably to these quickly changing wind angles. This is what makes the Smart ENVE rims unique.
The idea is basically that a linear steering torque response to changing wind is more predictable, and therefore more stable when combined with human steering inputs. The relation between wind angle and the steering torque it applies to the front wheel should be as linear as possible. This is a different approach from Zipp, which shoots for the lowest steering torque across all wind angles — and achieves it in comparison to the 6.7’s according to ENVE’s own data.
In theory, this difference in approach would seem to lend itself towards Zipp (or HED, which uses similar methods) being more stable in a steady crosswind, while the ENVE would be more predictable in gusts.