Nov, Dec Run Focus
In summary, I am debating whether to start a run focus Nov, Dec prior to JOS. Running is my relative weakness compared to the other 2. I am starting JOS and will do a half marathon hack along with the open race 04/14. Goal 1:25 time.
How to go about this run focus?
1. Put a lot of base miles, I would start at 45mi/week now and build to repeated weeks of 60mi/week in Dec, mostly easy running, some rolling hills, no threshold, no VO2max, nothing, long runs would build from 14-18mi, yes a little over 25% but under 30% of weekly mileage.
2. Go all out with track, threshold running with much lower mileage. I did this last year for 10-12 weeks prior to OS, got to VDOT 55 and crashed and burned after that during OS, it was too long of a period of fast and hard running 12 weeks+20 weeks, so, little scared to do that again. I am well below VDOT 55 now, I suspect. Hard and fast running does not bother me and I easily exceed VDOT number during intervals and repetitions. Where I struggle is steady threshold running over 3mi going 4-6mi is pretty difficult but very, very productive for me.
Further questions:
I know what to do with the swim, goes dialed down to 2x week. How about cycling? How much to dial back and what to do with it. I am rolling back on FTP and it has never been lower than before my last race, week ago. I am very uneasy to let it go.
Option 1 would leave me perfectly capable to cycle easy frequently. Option 2, I would be on the bike rarely.
What do you say?
Most of you know my background and issues, but if someone needs more to give an educated advice, be happy to provide.
Thanks.
Comments
I would approach it the following way:
-Nov / mid-Dec: Train like a 5k-10k racer. 6 weeks of Daniels ... again. You have the book and you know the drill.
-mid-Dec 2 weeks basic bike and run. The holidays torpedo any structure anyways.
-Jan OS - I'm not familiar with the HIM hack, but I suspect the net will be the same as my advice. Mainly, OS as planned, but replace your weekend run with a 90-120 minute effort that includes a build from EP -> MP -> HMP (or, EP -> MP -> TP). Obviously, while your first priority is to be able to hit it hard again on Tuesday, I think these are where the money is for improving long course tri running. Think about progression on these as well, but FWIW, I have generally tried to include about 40' of MP, and 2 x 20 HMP (or 20' TP) in each session.
-Key piece on the OS running: the 5X VDot you earned during your run-only block might be less during OS. I'm pretty sure mine dropped between the run-only block and the OS last year, and was continually overreaching.
Reaction?
i don't know your history, but you post a lot about swimming correct? thanks for that info!
focus on the interval distances where you struggle 9i.e. do intervals at that distance). your run 'focus' should be there during Nov/Dec. the weekly mileage will work itself out as your body gets accustomed to recovery time for the new workload. note your paces and then build as you can from there. notice that this is pacing according to what you can actually do vs. what you want to do. this will keep you from overdoing it and thus free from injury.
hope this makes sense.
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@Dave, great suggestions as always, very specific and I love that. That would work for for sure. Here is the trick, I am sitting at 40000ft, reading the other thread, coach's single sport focus, you chimed in there as well, love it. I am all over that idea. I want to go deep with one focus, running for sure, my weakest, this thread has me completely rethinking my plan. I was on the flight from Maui to Oakland yesterday writting out my Nov-June work........All out the window now.
@ Gilberto, thanks, makes perfect sense focusing on the weak area in that manner. I will address that. Here is more for both of you, to further put this into perspective.
I have a history of hard swim/ bikes and poor runs in all distances. Need to stop that through correct execution. I also have a weak run open or off the bike comapred to the other two. Can swim 30-32min, bike 2:26-2:30, run 1:37-1:40. Realtive placing of my run is the weakest.
2012 Season and in light of above:
Sept 9 70.3 Vegas AAA race, need to be able to hold my own ground in all 3
April 14 Half Marathon, MAJOR GOAL OF THE WHOLE YEAR sub 1:25:00 in order to meet the above Vegas.....
The other two are 70.3 Kansas- big day training event, 70.3 Racine- need to be able to put up fight with Matt Aaronson (ha,ha...
).
First one is a season goal, second is a stepping stone in getting there.
5 months of running only, bike 2x week?????????
Here's my vote, FWIW. You'[re going to be doing a fair amount of hard/fast running folowing the Jan OS program. Leading into that, go for three things in Nov/Dec:
• Frequency, 6-8 mile runs 4 days a week, one longer run (1.5 hours) once a week.
• Two runs each week, work your way up to 40 minutes of HM tempo running. Can start with 3 x 1 mile intervals, aiming to do 2 x 20, or 1 x 40 by the end. Steady progression here, don't do too much too soon. This is a bit heretical, but use that goal pace for your HM to pace these intervals.
• Do 8-12 strides at the end of every run, or if that gets boring, through in an equal number of 30 second pickups in your cool-down.
Swim and bike at your pleasure.
Hm. I like Tallo's plan. The Daniels 5-15k plan is a gold mine of speed. I wouldn't discount it.
I"m also wondering if you would benefit from a more frequent run test? Perhaps write in a bi-weekly TT? Perhaps do it off the bike?
@Al, thank you. It seems that i could do that week and still bike to a decent degree. It sounds very attractive. I plugged in 1:25:00 into Daniels, comes out HM pace just under 6:30. I think that if I start building in the manner you prescribed, that I can do that and not kill myself. Just to clarify, you do suggets "target or goal HM pace". Thanks.
@Beth, I will include those for sure as we roll later in OS. I feel that it has been an ingredient missing last OS, I really like running steady hard and fast off the bike. My brick runs have never been any different from that before EN. I have never known about those bricks ST is raging about. I never ran slower than race pace off the bike.
On Dave's suggestion, he leaves 2 weeks of easier running before OS which maybe sufficient to recover for OS. Just a little hesitant as I know that work is very effective, however me being 40 years old, not sure I can maintain that momentum physially and mentally into 20 week OS. It is for sure that if anyone wants to get 5k speed to peak, 5-15k Daniels rules, no doubt in my mind.
The goal on 04/14/2012 half marathon is sub 1:25:00, hope to translate that into 1:30:00 HM split later in the year.
Thanks.
AT, yeah, I'm suggesting basing your pace for the tempo intervals on the planned HM pace. Rather than testing and going with the pace from your current speed. Several assumptions behind that:
• I've done a couple of six-eight week slams using that method for 10Ks and HMs, and based my planned race time on what I *know* I can do, not what I *wish* I could do.
• You are a good enough student of your body's performance that you will know right away if you've picked too fast a pace, and will adjust accordingly. That means your pace may start slower asnd build towards the goal (that's the slightly heretical part, adjusting on the fly without re-testing repeatedly.)
• My suggestion assumes a progression starting with shorter intervals and lower overall time spent @ tempo, building over the term of the plan.
• The strides are a golden tool for building speed/efficiency with very little effort and time.
As Patrick notes, you don't want to burn yourself out BEFORE you start the OS, you get plenty of stress during that.
Coach P and Al, thanks. I have made the notes and will go down that road.
Posting this as much for myself as anyone else.
Recently, when my wife started training for her first half marathon with a group, she came home with the news that she'd learned (from a fellow runner, not the coach leading her group) that the way to move her arms was forward and back (fists pumping up and down like pistons, or something), no side to side movement. To give her an understanding of the proper, natural form, I went scurrying to my bookshelf to find a book I'd used years earlier when I was trying to learn how to run: Explosive Running, by Michael Yessis. In less than 180 pages, it's a concise summary (with pictures!) of all things needed to improve form, efficiency, and strength for runners from sprinters to road racers (like us.)
BTW, once she corrected her arm position, she went on to win her AG. She's not a competitor (meaning she hates racing), but in the three running races she's done, she's gotten two 1st places, including this one, which had over 1000 participants.
Thanks guys. Will do for sure. I have to also share that Daniels 5-15k and it's R-pace running, the shear amount of it, had me improve my mechanics big time. My form improved 10 fold.
Just an alternative viewpoint...
Jack Daniels, old school (but still good) running coach, "Daniels running formula" book (www.amazon.com/Daniels-Running-Form...ref=sr_1_1)
@Andrew, Jack Daniels wrote a book "Daniels Running Formula". I think it is the most powerfull medicine written for mortals. Book really gears toward serious runners. If taken in overdose can be harmful. But the book is must have and if you know how to bring it down to your level, go to 5-15k section, look at it, think and see how can you water it down for you.
@Mike, I have a large dose of fear of burn out. Of all the advice above, it is hard to pick. My primary factor is not to burn out too soon.
I am not injury prone and I can run anything I want, long, fast, uphill, downhill, high volume, low volume. I seem to get fast at upper end quick and plateua. Dave's advice is proven, works. I could bump a VDOT one number up with his suggestion, but am not concerned about bumping it just yet. I would love to reserve bumping numbers up for OS. I would love to build a solid foundation with fatigue resistance being key so that I can enter JOS and take the beating and keep recovering. I think Al provided a sensible solution, a compromise between going and hammering pure threshold work now. However, I am listening still as, "building base"= building fatigue resistance in my textbook. I think I crashed and burned last OS for the lack of ability to recover and a very poor base of general conditioning.
This week is pretty much planned just as you suggested it. Got back from the track today with some R-pace stuff, just to get the legs going fast after 6 weeks of slow stuff. felt great.
This week has 6 runs (frequency you mention), long run 14mi (100min), total 45mi. 5 bike rides, all very controlled, 2x Z1 60min, 1 150min Z2 with 80-85% intervals, 2x 90min Z2 steady. Bike comes "behind" running and gets leftovers. No pool until later this week.
I am back with core and plyometrics 2-3x week 20-30min.
Thank you for sharing the thoughts.
I am listening.
(feel free to respond in a new thread or PM so this conversation doesn't get hijacked)
Dave, sorry it is taking me this long. For the start, as I just did nothing spectacular, I put it in a circuit, from 30sec each, with several connected, than short rest, than again, just a few sets. Found some run specific stuff in Skiba's book. I am very open to suggestions or sources of good routines if you know.
Here are some:
1. rope jumping
2. squat/jumps
3. plyometric lunges
4. as above but side lunges over bosu
5. stair climbers
6. step ups
Taking ideas.
Also, the P90X plyo DVD isn't bad, either.
Mike, will do. By the way, completed last week at 45mi of running, 150mi of cycling, 2x plyo/core, 2x swim with the team, just about 15 hrs of good old adding another "living room" to what seems to be the ranch, for now. That was only week 1. There will be a total of 8 weeks. Cyclling will come down as the weather arrives, but run will turn up to 60mi/week+. Cannot wait to start building the house up in JOS.
(posted this in another related thread of yours, this seems like a better place for it)
Hi Aleksander,