do I have to feel like $h!t to lose those last 5-8 pounds
I think I'm doing something dumb, and am too blind to figure it out.
I'm running the Philly Marathon in less than 3 weeks. Been trying to achieve a calorie deficit of about 300 per day over the last couple of weeks to slim down to race weight. Currently about 154-5, I'd be happy to be below 152, but know that my real 'fighting weight' is about 147 (both past experience rowing as well as current %BF estimates).
From a top-down perspective, I've been trying to keep the carb levels up and not over-protein myself (which has been a mistake I've made in the past). From the references I've seen (predominantly Monique Ryan's book and Matt Fitzgerald's book), I probably need about 2.5 - 3.5 grams of carbos per pound for adequate glycogen resynthesis. That means I "should" be eating around 375 - 525 grams of carbs per day, or 1500 - 2100 calories of carbs alone. The rest of the diet is filled in with about 100-120 grams of protein (another 4-500 calories) and about 75 grams of fat (another 675 calories). All told, approximately 2750 - 3275 calories.
Looking at calorie needs from the bottom up, both calculators Penny recommends (Harris-Benedict and Mifflin-St. Jeor) tell me my BMR is about 1650, and with a 1.2 daily activity factor (desk job), my maintenance needs are about 2000 calories per day. Add in exercise on non-rest days between 600 (easy bike) to 1000 (harder run) and we're in a similar ballpark to the numbers above. Obviously, on days with a 20 miler, I've had to up this further.
Long story short (too late!), I've been tracking my diet with LoseIt, and seeing an interesting trend. I'm consistently under 300g of carbohydrates (280 or so is fairly typical) despite my efforts to keep that up. In addition, I've felt like garbage for the past week. Some of that is to be expected, since this was the last big build week of marathon training (I heart the taper!). But this feels ridiculous. Falling asleep at 8pm, exhausted, unable to drag myself out of bed in the morning the next day despite 9-10 hours of sleep. And it's not been one of those stretches at work where I'm running on fumes, I've been getting good sleep for the last several weeks.
So, am I one of these folks who needs the advice "eat more to give your body what it needs, and stop worrying about the weight!", or do I need to focus my energy differently? About the only thing I know is that I'm probably not doing the right thing, and I'm also probably overthinking the situation. Any and all thoughts would be greatly appreciated!
Historically, the only way I've gotten down to fighting weight was to throw a ton of volume at the problem. That's made it tough during the OS. I really thought a period of lots of running would make it easier, but I stand corrected.
Comments
Hey Mike,
I know exactly what your going through. Although I may not have spectacular advice, i can validate that i feel the same way when dieting. So much that i know it impacts my training. I worked hard to drop an extra 5lbs for IMLP this year (down to 150) but was surely dragging those last few weeks. I decided not to take that route leading up to IMAZ in a couple weeks. I'm at 155 today, but my FTP and VDOT have never been higher. I think in the long run, dieting through calorie deficit is better suited for when we dont have an immediate race on the horizon.
Now, back to the diet-----you seem to be counting all of the things that food is "made up of", but are you eating these things in the right combinations so that they are working together like a functioning engine or are you eating them like an engine that is disassembled (all the parts, but not together right so they aren't doing you any good)?
I'm at peace with being at this weight for the race (still the lightest I've ever run a marathon at, though that's not saying much). But it does leave me wondering what the road map to get there is for the future. I've read the Paleo for Athletes and Primal ideas, but can't possibly imagine getting enough carbs in that window around endurance exercise to avoid this feeling (I've tried before, and have always felt this way). I know there are athletes who slim down to race weight without dropping all the grains, so that can't be the only roadmap. I'd love to hear from anyone who's succeeded in dropping to race weight without feeling this way.
Thanks again!
1) I don't like for endurance athletes to cut weight when it starts getting close to a race, and it is tricky during the build phase
2) A 1.2 activity factor may be too low
3) Your "fighting weight" for rowing may not be your race weight for a marathon.
4) The scale really doesn't tell you anything other than a number. I'm not a fan of using it to set "race weights" other than in just a general fashion. Body composition is much more important. If you can, find a BodPod or hydrostatic weighing place and get your body composition assessed. You might also check into getting your resting metabolic rate measured because the calculations can, and often are, off.
5) Confession time: I've been losing weight recently, too, including cutting back on my calories. A few weeks ago I was so fatigued I was having a hard time staying awake while driving to work. I've added in more calories and feel a lot better. NY Marathon is this weekend. I'm giving myself permission to eat a lot more last week and this week to be sure I've got enough gas in tank for the race.
6) If this is the lightest you've been for a marathon - then CELEBRATE that!
7) Focus on changing your body composition during the off season or early training season.
8) Paleo/Primal may not be for you. It works for some, but each of us is very different. You may need something more Zone-like or moderate carb vs. low carb/starch.
9) Getting with a Sports Dietitian may be a great thing for you to get all of this worked out. You can find local ones at www.scandpg.org. Or, if you are close to Boston, I'd HIGHLY recommend Nancy Clark.
Hope all of this helps. Relax about the scale (you might even put it away until after the race), eat as your body is asking you to. Enjoy the race!
I know you said that you've played around with the carbs and protein balances. Last year I started eating very few starch carbs and felt the same as you described so I stopped doing it. This year instead I went with with high fiber and lower GI index foods replacing the high GI and starchy foods and felt much better. Something to consider!
What Penny and others said. In addition:
Interestingly, now that Joanne has been marathon training, when she runs longer than 2hrs she wants a steak, NOW, so we hit Outback down the street
Also, if you ain't at your race weight as 3-4wks out from your race...it ain't happenin'. I wanted to get under 154lb before IMWI but I probably raced at 156lb.
I think we also need to adjust expectations for age, etc. In 2002, I know I raced IMWI at about 153-154lb. This was 2yrs out of the Corps so I probably was carry a good bit more upper body mass than I am now. I was going through a divorce, we still lived together in the house, both worked from home = my escape was to train 3-4hrs per day. I was a lean mofo (see muscle mass + 153-154lb above).
So my 154lb goal weight this year was based on those numbers above...but I'm 43yo vs 34, I've lost upper body mass, blah, blah, wtf knows. For next year I'm basing my goals on what I actually acheived this year, shooting to do a bit better.
I have been coming to some similar conclusions, that the evidence is clearly that I'm in need of more calories, so I've started (yesterday) focusing on upping the daily calories and increasing the carbs, in order to feel better. That's my number one goal between now and Philly.
On the 'ideal weight' front, I don't know that 147 is it, but I know it's lower than where I am right now. My BIA scale tells me %BF is between 11-13% in the morning, lower in the evening. The 'look in the mirror' test tells me that I'm not at 8%BF or lower (where I start to see abs). When I was a rower, I was at 139 as a freshman, bulked up to 142 for sophomore and junior year, and was about 147 racing at 145 senior year. All of that data tells me that my performance weight is probably somewhere south of 152, so I'd picked about 147-150 as a target. Don't know if that's just oversimplifying or not, though.
Jennifer, thanks for sharing the experience. I'm looking forward to trying to sort all this out during the JOS!
I hear you on the aging factor. No delusions of grandeur here! Like I said, I get up in the morning, and don't quite pass the 'look in the mirror' test I have in my head. I've pushed that goal back to AG Nat'ls next summer instead of this year's Philly marathon, so I've got 9 more months to figure it out!
Love hearing the experiences and roadmaps of others!
For me, it wasn't so much paleo as it was:
I was certainly never starving and I learned a lot about how to manage this stuff. The net is that 500-1000cal deficit per day was manageable, but at 1000/day I REALLY had to be on my game, paying attention to what I needed on an hour by hour basis. The lesson, therefore, is to start this stuff early. You can't make up for missed homework close to your race.
And one more thing...I'd look into when you are eating. I find that when I am eating less, I need to eat far more frequently and take a protein drink just before bed.