CIM Pace?

foolio_mugoolio

Hi,

I could sure use some advice on pacing for CIM in December.  I've run two other marathons in the last 2 years and both with the goal of just finishing. This is my first marathon where I will actually have a time goal.

Background... I did VIneman Full this year at end of July (my first IM distance) then took August mostly off with non-structured light training.  Then I did a HM in early Sept (PR of 1:42, VDOT 43.7).   From there, my running was frequent (3 to 4x per week) but not much in terms of long runs (nothing over 9 miles) until October.  Then I put in 3 days of running per week with long runs of 13, 18, 15, 18.  This week I'll do a 10 miler recovery week then do long runs of 21, 13, 10 per the M hack program. (I've started to OS this week with the hack on top of it)

I have been running my long runs between 8:50 and 9:40 pace depending on distance, outside temp, etc.  My best run was an 18 miler at 8:50 pace which felt really good back in early Oct.  My 2 mid week runs since Sept 1 have mostly been a track interval workout and a tempo run (with mod/hard X-training in between).

For CIM, I'm thinking of pacing for a 3:50 goal (8:46/mi) and if I feel strong at mile 20, then increase the pacing slightly depending on how I feel.  Does this make sense?  Is that too conservative?  Is there a better approach?  I'm not really certain this is my most optimal strategy.  Like I said, this is my first marathon where I'm "racing".

I know it's a long post so THANKS for any advice.

Enrique

ezellrh

Enrique, your post is scary... Last year, I completed my first iron distance race (Vineman) and then ran CIM in December... Great minds I think (did you do Wildflower earlier last year?). Anywho, I won't speak to specific pacing (so I won't answer your question), but I will give a brief "heads-up" on the CIM course. Either you've already run CIM before, which will mean all of this you already know, or you haven't and this will hopefully be of some use to you. When they advertise "all down-hill", they are not telling the truth. Although it is an aggregate downhill course, there are some rollers in the first half. Nothing crazy (like Chalk Hill) but just be forewarned. I highly recommend once you do determine a target pace, hop on board with one of the pacing teams. The one I ran with was great, the pacer was accurate in his splits, and there's enough people in each group that you can join the "herd" and just go with the flow without a lot of thought. Great on course support, both from the organizations and from the locals/family involved. There were really very few isolated spots in the race. Overall, its one of the better run races that I've participated in and I would definitely do it again. The organizers know what they are doing.

Good luck and let me know how you did!

foolio_mugoolio

@Roy, Thanks for the info. This IS my first time doing CIM so it is great information. You mean it's not all downhill!! I had read some race reports so did have a little warning about that . Funny that you mention Wildflower...Although I didn't do it last year, I AM thinking of doing it next!! Funny huh!

mgraffeo

Enrique, a 1:42 HM would predict a 3:32 marathon time if well trained. That's probably too aggressive. Knocking 2 vdot points off would yield a 3:45, with marathon pace of 8:35. Remember, marathon pace is supposed to be faster than your easy training pace. Good luck!

foolio_mugoolio

Thanks Mike. 3:45 sounds good to me.

Brenda Ross

Hope you did some downhill training. If this course is anything like Boston, your quads will feel like they are going to fall off. I made the mistake, although i tried not to, to go out to fast and paid for it around mile 16 onward, resulting in walking and a Personal Worse marathon. If I recall correctly Marathon Nation suggests 10sec slower per mile per goal pace for the first 6 miles then pick up the pace to goal pace and try to hold on.

foolio_mugoolio

Brenda, Yeah, I saw the pacing suggestions in the Marathon sections here on the wiki.  It sounds good, except that the course is up and down all the way through so I'm not sure how close I can stick to a constant pace... probably not very well.  I don't do a lot of marathons (about 1 per year) so execution is going to be really key I think.  I'm really going to start conservative and not get caught up in the herd.  I've been successfully using my Garmin for a couple years to pace my runs so I'm going to be disciplined about it.  3:45 pace is the overall goal.  Since my best marathon time was 4:17 last January, this could really be a huge personal best for me. Thanks for chiming in... the downhills do concern me.  

John Stark

Hey Enrique:

Where in Cali are you?

CIM is basically F L A T.  Rollers, yes.  Hills, no.  What Roy said.  And you are getting good pacing advice below.  

Only thing I can add is about the weather.  Be ready for anything.  I have run it 3x and it can be low 20's to low 40's at the start line.  Buy throw away clothes at a Salvation Army to wear over your running gear so you will be bundled at the start line and can just throw them off once you get started (or just before).  They bus you from Sacto out to Folsom area and then you just stand there in the cold.  No shelter.  And if you take an early bus you are standing there, in the cold, for a long time.  So be prepared.  Trust me.  

This is an incredibly well supported race and there are people all along the course.  Very, very fun.

Enjoy.

John

 

John Stark

Just to clarify - Throw away clothes = sweats, hoodie sweat shirt, long sleeve shirts, beanie or ski cap.  Layer, layer, layer. They do have drop bags at the start line they take back to the finish line for ya but not big enough for an Alaskan parka.  

foolio_mugoolio

Hey, Great!! I have a bag of old clothes that I was getting ready to give away. Stuff that is too big since I lost 15 lb. I'll look there first for some stuff to wear. Great idea. Oh, by the way, I live in Brentwood, just east of you. I see that you're in Danville. We're practically neighbors.

foolio_mugoolio

Argh. I DNF'd my marathon yesterday. Maybe it was a poor pace goal or poor race execution.. not sure which really, maybe both. I made it to mile 19 fine, but then the wheels came off. By mile 20 I went from 8:35ish pace to 10 min + some walking. I decided to call it a day and took one of the relay buses to the finish line. Glad there were buses. A smaller race would not have had that option. I'm a little defeated at the moment. Just looking forward to 3 weeks of unstructured recovery and rest before starting my OS workouts and shooting for new goals for next year.

jhbinsc

Sorry to hear Enrique. I suggest writing a detailed race report that might help you to identify the reason(s) you underperformed. If you wish to share your report, I'm sure you'd get lots of help.

Not to brag but had to share one of my training partners from my town here in South Carolina ran 2:49:19! Plus she has only been running a few years to get her baby weight off. It was a huge PR for her of 10+ minutes. Did I mention she is visually impaired?? She might be headed towards running in the Trials at this rate! Wow!

foolio_mugoolio

Thanks. I'll work on a race report. I need to reflect a bit on the whole thing.

That's amazing about your training partner. Please tell me she's in her 20's and was a track star in college or I may quit running altogether.