My perspective on training, opinions needed.
I'm new, not sure if this is the place to post this so forgive me if it isn't. I just wanted to share what I've learned/my perspective so far in regards to training in the off season and to get some feedback (I'll try to keep it brief and to the point)...
Background: Cycling background, mostly long distance. No Tri, swim or run experience. Age 37 and in good shape* (a relative term).
Event preparing for: IMLP
Swim training: My thoughts on approaching swim training (off season) is to learn the basics of freestyle. I started last week and I'm taking private lessons. I'm going to learn bilateral breathing and looking to become a competent swimmer at a basic level (ie have the basic stroke down, can breath bilaterally, can swim 750 continuous meters and feel comfortable doing it. This isn't etched in stone but something along these lines). Since I have no swim foundation, I'd rather learn the basics earlier rather than later if for nothing else, peace of mind. I'm swimming 4-5 days a week for 30 minutes.
Running: I learned quickly that my body can't take intensity with the run yet. If I push it, my joints will be sore for days afterwards. I did go to a reputable running shop for my shoes and got a proper fit so feel confident that isn't the issue. I'm currently using BarryP's 3-2-1 program with good results (running 6 days. 3 short runs, 2 runs twice the length of the short, 1 long run 3x the short. s-m-s-m-s-l). Pace is slow and I increase the total milage by 1 mile a week (13 miles currently). My thought is I can solidify a run base in the off season and mix in intensity as my body/joints allow during my in season training.
Bike: I'll be following the EN bike plan in the off season as I have a powertap and my body can take the intensity.
Since I have no base in the swim & run, doing my first tri (an Ironman) and I'm 37 (body can't take a pounding like it use to) thought this would be a sound approach to the off season. Thoughts?
Comments
Welcome on board. Good of you to put your thoughts out there. This is a team for a reason; we all help each other. My thoughts as I'm reading what you've written
Swim: sounds like you're on the right track. Learn good form, get it burned into your muscle memory, and your IM day will be off on the right foot. Most folks here typically don't do a lot of swim intensity over the winter, but it is highly recommended to get the basics down through instruction if needed, like you're doing.
Bike: think you're on the right track.
Run: Sounds like you've got very little background in running. If so, building up some frequency is a good move. Not sure that 6 days per week would be my approach, given that you'll also be biking and running. Most plans that call for running with that frequency are running-only plans. You'll get plenty of aerobic development with time on the bike. I'd suggest doing the runs suggested in the OS plan, but easing off the intensity (or eliminating it) until you feel ready. So, run on Tuesday (short), Wednesday (medium), Saturday (short) and Sunday (medium to long as tolerated).
The good thing about the way we do intensity here is that it's all based off of the tested level that you're at. So, nobody is going to ask you to run intervals at 6 min/mile. When you feel ready for it, you'll do a 5k test, and then set your training zones off of that. Most of the running prescribed is 15-30 seconds/mile slower than your 5k pace, and you're asked to hold it for 3 x 1/2mi, or 2 x 1mi. So, on most of the 'intense' runs, you should never feel like you feel in the last mile of a race. The plans are laid out that way deliberately.
There's definitely a physical element to getting ready for training like this (for someone who's never ran before, for example), but it sounds like you've got the athletic background to handle it, so I'd suggest that it's more of a case of getting psychologically ready for the training, and then giving the 5k test a shot.
Good luck!
On the other hand, if you run a 5k in 20 minutes (a little faster than 6:30's), then the intervals would be run at a 6:52 pace. So, the difficulty scales with your ability. The key with all of the run workouts is that more is not better. Guidance is to run them at the prescribed pace, not faster. Running at your threshold produces significant gains that we've all seen.
1) breating every 3rd stroke...breath, left, right, breath, right, left, breath, etc.
2) being able to breath on the left AND right sides...breath, left, breath, left or breath, right, breath, right. etc.
My $.02, learn #2 above so you can deal with any course, challenge, misguided fellow swimmer, waves, current, etc.
Welcome - one of the best parts of EN is that the members all so willing share their knowledge. So post away whenever you have a question.
I agree with Scott and Mike on the swimming. Learn the proper technique now, then the swim fitness will come. Private lessons are a good idea.. 2x on learning to breath on both sides as it will come in handy some time in a race and you don't want to try it in a race for the first time. Just one thing to be aware of: an IM swim is different from a regular swim race in that you have to get out of the water and cycle and run 138 more miles. So the kick is less aggressive as you need to save your legs. The kick is really to help you rotate and maintain good horizontal body position.
I agree with comments about run frequency. Since you are just building up the durability in your bones, muscles, tendons and liagments to handle the stress of running, I would suggest running just 4 times a week, like every other day, to give yourself time to recover. I've been a runner for decades, use to run 6 days a week, and always was fighting injuries. I cut back to 4 days a week, upped the intensity on the days I do run, and I've been running just as fast as I did 20 years ago without the nagging injuries. Net follow the EN plan . I also suggest that you swim the day after each run day. Really helps your legs to recover, and you still get a good training day in. Hope this helps. Good luck.
Cheers and welcome
Peter
Not sure if I should start another thread or just ask in this one. At any rate, what are some good bench marks to hit for the end of the out season? These are guesses.
Run: 20 miles per week
Bike: 2-3 hour long rides at X% of FTP?
Swim: 750 meters with good basic technique?
Christopher - given what you posted about your speed being faster than your joints can handle on the run intensity, I suggest that you gradually build up the intensity before going all out too often. One way to do this is to run at your normal pace (10:00/mile) for 2 miles to warm up, then add in some 1/4 mile efforts @ say 8:30 pace. Then run @ your normal pace for 1/4 mile. Repeat. Try 2 x 1/4 mile the first day, and then cool down. On your next run, warm at normal pace then try 3 x 1/4 at faster pace with a 1/4 mile rest interval in between each hard interval. See how you feel, if ok, then on your next run try 4 x 1/4 mile. You get the idea. Over time, you can add more intervals or increase the lenght of the intervals as your joints get use to the stress and pounding.
Another thing you might want to try --- ICE on joints after a run is a wonderful thing. Just fill some baggies with cubes, drop them on your knees while resting in bed or on a couch. Read a triathlon magazine, surf the web or whatever. In 20 minutes your knees will thank you. For somethng that still allows you to walk around while icing your knee, try a Moji. More expensive that baggies, but works great. I've got one. See below.
http://www.gomoji.com/pages/knee__ice_/17.php
Chris,
You've gotten excellent advice from everyone so far. However, I strongly, strongly recommend you that you work with us to modify OUR OS plan vs trying to do our OS cycling workouts within the context of some internet forum ST-running fanboy coach. Sorry to be harsh but BarryP is a RUNNING coach, not a triathlon coach.
It's very, very easy for PnI to say "take our 4 runs per week and do X, Y, Z to them vs the ABC in the plans. Done." I would NOT have you running 6x/wk, especially within the context of our cycling workouts.
So what you mean to say is: BarryP does have an approach to run training that some have found to be helpful for a stand alone marathon. Since your focus is an Ironman, however, I would strongly suggest you try our approach to training for the run etc..
Yes, he is a runner, not a triathlon coach. He makes that very clear at the beginning of his write up, he's quite modest/humble...
Like I said, I'm open minded and will give it a go. I'll post up the training plan changes questions etc in the macro thread. I believe that's where I'm suppose to write that stuff.
I don't know much about him. I do know he seems to be a popular guy on Slowtwitch, for whatever reason, and that a lot of people follow his running advice, especially in the winter. That's great.
Our goal here is to make you a faster triathlete (ie, bike + run, in the OS) and a new runner running 6x/wk while also doing our bike workouts (which those ST guys are not) is not something I would prescribe for anyone. Not saying it won't work, not saying you will/will not get hurt, just that 6x/wk + 3 x very hard bike sessions is not something I would prescribe for a new runner and is not something I would recommend.
Rich knows of what he speaks. Believe! Also would like to add that you experiment w/ various recovery modalities such as ice, stretching, massage, ART, foam roller, full lower body ice baths, etc. to learn what works for you to reduce post run soreness best. You can search the site for options or post a question asking for suggestions. That's what is so great about the EN Haus. See also recent posts on run cadence , heel striking and POSE/Evolution RUnning.
Good luck!
Just sayin.
Totally missed the 0 experience and IMLP being your first...
I'm concerned with this statement:
While 37 is still quite young, your comments about joints/injury issues make me wonder if doing an IM is the best idea. It's not an easy race, and I can personally attest that slogging through to finish is awful. I have knee issues and ended up unable to walk for 2 weeks and doing 2 months of PT after IMWI. Of course being called an "Ironman" is a wonderful feeling but it's not the end all be all.
And learning how to swim and making your body run well are two VERY significant issues to take on less than a year before an IM. Not trying to be Debbie Downer here, but definitely want to make you think hard about the reality of an IM.
My notes:
Short answer: a guy doing an IM as his first triathlon...that's interesting, cute, pretty stupid, whatever. One of MY athletes doing their first tri as an Ironman...hellz no, not if I can help it.
My only expectation for the race is to run the entire marathon. Pace doesn't matter. Time doesn't matter. That's my target.
Today was the second day I've been able to swim the entire length of the pool (25 yards) using the bilateral breathing method and exhaling under water (sort of). I did 30 minutes of laps with rest. At the end, the lifegard told me I was swimming 20 second laps repeatedly and complemented my progress. That was todays win :-)
I planned on asking more questions but it's 8:30 pm and need to get my training in. I'll post them in the morning...
Christopher,
Not much else to add other than the bench marks are a little of a concern in my mind. Work with the coaches in the macro thread to get the set up EN style.
In the OS we focus on time for workouts and increasing you vdot. I'd only track mileage to ensure that I'm not raming up too fast. Getting to that Vdot test first, then getting in more runs.
Bike - We don't do 2-3 hour long rides at FTP in the OS as a standard workout, look at FTP from a 42' test and look at pushing that as high as possible.
Swim - Just work the technique maybe shooting for the ability to do a 1000TT.
Finally as you your ultimate goal of running the whole marathon it maybe achievable but there is no shame in walking the aid stations and you might even see a faster marathon. Check out Coach P's Lake Placid race report from this past year and he qualified for Kona.
Gordon
I can take way more pounding and hard training at 54 than I ever could at 37. It is like anything else, you adapt to the demands you place on your body.
My favorite story is from the Burlington marathon dinner back in 2006. A gentleman at my table who was 84 told me that this marathon would be his 69th. Then he said he only started running marathons at the age of 60! My jaw dropped..... Wow!
The human body is truely amazing, it just takes dicipline and training to hone it to a sharp tool.
Also, the best part of this gig is ripping the hearts out of guys 10-15yrs younger than me. And I've issued standing orders to my local training homies to kick me in the nuts if I ever use age as an excuse. It might "become" a reason but I'm not going to open my mouth about it, at least not where they can hear me
98.5% of the athletes here @ IM AZ are younger than me. I intend to beat at least 75% of them.
Al - best of luck @ IMAZ. Beat all those young guys.
great stats Al, love it!
Remember you're getting a ton of fitness on the bike.
It is all about getting to you to race day as fit and healthy as possible.