Stand down or keep pushing - How do you know for sure?
Alright, I'm stumped. I don't know if it's that I'm mentally giving up on myself, or if I'm physically smashing harder against the brick wall than I realize, or if I'm just going through the painful process of trying to handle the break through what has been my fitness ceiling in the past, or if I'm just tired of working out on a bike that goes no where by myself. I really don't know.
I'm finishing week 13 of OS (October group). I've struggled over the last month with the Saturday rides (especially after the addition of the 4x4min stuff etc.), and with handling the runs after the bike. In many cases I've had to chunk the runs up into segments with rest breaks in between or cut them short.
I handle the work efforts fine. They're work, mind you, but I get them done without issue. So today, for example, I took on the 30/30's without a problem. Then when it came to the remainder at 85% I had a hard time holding that zone. I ended up getting off the bike for a few minutes, thought about bagging it, then got back on. Then I did end up chunking that part into two segments to get to the total 1:15 time. I suited up for my run outside, and started up. It just felt heavy and dull and lame. I saw my 10 - 11 minute pace and went through the thought process of how there seemed to be no way I would get to my HMP at that rate. Then I started walking. Told myself to not be so negative and just run and see how I feel. A couple minutes later I was walking again. At that point I gave up and headed home.
It seems like I've been in this state for about a month. I took a few extra rest days here and there over the holidays, and got a lot of rest, but might be slipping back into the same place. I don't want to give in, if I should be pushing through. It's rare for me to not be able to get through my workouts, but lately I've been struggling with it like never before. When this has happened in the past an extra rest day or two seems to help. This time I don't know what to do. I've thought about upping my calorie consumption during the day, experimented with taking in calories during my rides... I've also been really tired during my days at work and dragging a$$ majorly. When I get home at night I can't wait to get to bed!!
So what's my question? I guess it's how do you know for sure that it's time to fully stand down vs. try to push through? And a related question is, if there is an adjustment period to new levels of fitness as a result of this kind of work is there a minimum level of execution for each workout (the saturday ones in particular) that allows to meet the objective of the workout, but not exceed it? Or if you're not able to get it all done are you better off not doing it at all.
Thanks for "listening" to my frustration.
Comments
Olivia, sorry to hear how you're feeling. I think we all have times where the mental or physical power is just not there. When it lasts more than a few days I always run through a brief checklist:
1. Anything illness hints?- Hints of a virus? Fever, aches, head or chest symptoms. If yes check with my doc.
2. Anything change in sleep hours or poor sleep? If yes try to get back on schedule(if possible)
3. Anything different with diet? If yes, increase the fruits/veggies/whole foods to boost energy.
4. Anything stressful with my work or family? If yes, talk with those I share the stress with?
5. Any overtraining hints? I'll check my resting pulse in the morning and if it's 5 pts higher that's a clear hint that I need to back off. If you're using WKO+ I always get in trouble if I push my TSB(combined run/bike) to more than -25. Time to back off or take extra rest day.
Everyone in the Haus is highly motivated but we know that sometimes hitting the whole 15' at 93% is much better than just stopping at 7.5' because you can't hold 100% today. I feel better if I complete the workout even if I didn't hit all the marks perfectly.
Good luck on sorting it out. I know you'll get your mojo back!
John
Olivia, have you had a checkup and bloodwork checked recently, especially your hematocrit and a thyroid level? Anemia and/or a low thyroid, as well as many other things, could contribute to your symptoms. I'm sure some (human
) docs will chime in with suggestions.
Any nagging injuries?
Any stressors (besides workouts) that you are unaccustomed to? You have mentioned before that you are frustrated at work - could that be affecting you more than you think?
The WSMs in the house will surely have some great advice for you, but maybe you should stand down for a couple of days until you get yourself sorted out. The mental break should do you some good, and your training won't suffer much if any.
I hate to hear that you are struggling like this.
Let me know if I can help!
I hate to hear the struggle too. I know that pain all too well. If you ask me, this does NOT sound like a push-through scenario. We warned all the new peeps to try and temper the enthusiasm early on, which is almost impossible to do. It always falls on deaf ears, but that's completely understandable (been that guy). But this EN work is insidious--it creeps up and takes a giant chunk out of your arse if you don't pace it right and start out too hot in the early weeks. You are not going to want to hear this, but the current program you are on is--for now--just too much for your body to handle, IMO. It is clear that you are NOT ABSORBING the work, but it is sldiing right off you like teflon and kicking you to the curb in the process. Can this be turned around? Absolutely! My recommendation would be to back down to the Beg plan for the remainder of the OS. (We're going to ask RnP to rename the plans Moderate Intensity, High Intensity and Very High Intensity, which is more reflective of reality. Nothing here is truly beginner. ) Take the 2 weeks transition period of very easy workouts. Then get going back stronger than ever for St. George.
When picking the training level for St. George, here are some very wise thoughts by John Culberson in another post. His reflections are through the lens of a 50+ athlete, but no one can tell me that the basic tenets here don't apply to any age. Think hard about which plan you pick for the IM. Hope you don't mind the direct talk. It's because you are a woman of extreme talent, and I don't want to see that go up in a bon fire of over-reaching. Love--LP
FROM JOHN:
On that note, I will point out that we all have selected Beginner, Intermediate, or Advanced OS Schedules. I did so based on my previous finishing times, however, there is a possibility that my Ego (see #1 above) played a role. Advice on this thread has made me consider the possibility that, based on age (and increased need for recovery), the key may be to complete as much work as I can ABSORB on a weekly and monthly basis. More intervals and higher efforts will not help make me faster if I cross that invisible red line into over-reaching. I am thinking that renaming the OS Programs to Moderate, High, and Very High Intensity focus may help me to reorient my OS schedule to MY PERSONAL NEEDS (ie many years experience, mesomorphic body type, age>50). Its seems like the Advanced schedule adds more time at FTP. I could do the same training stimulus by doing the additional time at a lower intensity (ie 90-95%) or shorter time (Intermediate of Beginner OS Plan) at higher intensity (ie 95-100% FTP). Its actually quite possible that the "Beginner" schedule will yield the best results for an older athlete who really wants to stick with the 95-100% FTP anaerobic threshold work. I'm sure that RnP will concur that one does not have to work at 95-100% to improve FTP. It is the best ROI, but may require me to lower the number of intervals that I can absorb each week . I suspect that I will end-up bouncing back and forth between moderate, high, and very high depending on my response (and probably a little due to my ego, ie #1) If I'm lucky, I'll stay healthy and absorb enough training stimulus to have a great race in November! For those with power, I find that there is a predictable relationship between HR and Power. If that relationship changes across workouts, I may not be absorbing the training load. I can then either 1. take a day off, 2. go easy... or 3. I can adjust my training plan (see #2 above).
Olivia - I agree with the comments above - don't push through as you'll just dig yourself in deeper. Definitely get a medical check up to make sure all is well.
If I am feeling wiped out I will take an extra day off and make sure I use that to catch up on my sleep (lie in a bit longer that morning and have an early night that evening). You say it is the Saturday bike you are struggling with so this week take Thursday as well as Friday off and see how you get on. If you are still not performing that well then consider doing what Linda suggests and finish off the OS with a "moderate intensity" plan.
Good luck and let us know how you get on.
Chris
Olivia- In the 3.0 forum, Linda did a great job of detailing her anemia issue. And dealing with a doc that was "in tune" with an endurance athlete's needs (IIRC- he was a marathoner himself).
Sorry if I am speaking out of turn about you Linda.
When/if you see the doc and have blood work, be sure that it is not looked at from the perspective of the everyday person, but someone with a major exercise habit. It makes a difference. Linda was on IV iron to get back in the game.
Personally, although technically my thyroid level was normal, my doc believed I needed supplementation because I had other symptoms. I was skeptical, but DH is way smarter than I and he told me I really should give it a try. I am on a low dose. My studies are still in the normal range, but I feel better. I think they were right.
And of course stress is killer. I recommend to the vast majority of patients and friends that they consider regular body work- massage, chiropractic, acupuncture, whatever will work to help relax and rejuvenate.
Best of luck.
Anytime! I share this info willingly. It was a saga, as you know.
Olivia: Sounds like a stand down situation. If you can't hold the 85% interval or feeling lifeless on the runs, it's time to for some rest. I've found that I'm able to push through the "harder"/higher watts intervals because they're either shorter and/or my ego/testosterone (women has some too!) pushes me to finish them. When it comes time for the less intense stuff, if I really can't hold those watts physically (and not mentally as in "I'm bored") then I know I'm fatigued and really close to that brick wall.
Also, I don't think days off over holidays or due to a busy work day are really a day off because those days aren't truly restful.
So sorry to hear that you're struggling. Let go of any guilt or anxiety you may feel about taking a recovery period and missing workouts. You'll be back stronger than ever before you know it!
Olivia,
All great words of wisdom from folks who want to see you do well. Hopefully, it's nothing more than cummulative fatigue, but getting checked out is a good idea. You've had a VERY stressful year with your accident. That kind of stuff is sneaky in how it manifests itself.
Last year while ramping up for my A race, I took three days off in a row over Memorial Day weekend. I was toast. OS, ToC, bike racing, and training for a 70.3. I NEEDED it and people here told me I did. It did me a world of good.
Please keep us updated.
Dave
Dave
So I'll start with tomorrow fully off. I may have to avoid the pull of the nordic skis and the plea of DH for me to join him for a few runs on the snowboard. Off, off, off! Rest, rest, rest.
Then I will also ask for feedback from RnP WRT the plan I should follow for the reamaining 4ish weeks of OS and use those guidelines for what IM plan I ultimately select. You're right Linda and John, I'm very clearly in over what my body and mind can handle. There's some component of the work that I can do, but the overall intensity and amount are too much at this point. What I find myself wondering is at what point things are too much...I know it's different for each athlete, but I wonder how many additional grains of rice add up to the overage. There is probably a wicked smart answer to musings of that nature...
And Dave, you are probably very right about the potential for whatever additional stress is still lingering as a result of my broken face and all of the teeth that I lament having lost, and the additional work that lies ahead of me to get my mouth put pack together. AND you remind me too, that I need to be thankful that inside of six month from that trauma I started with OS, and that here I am 8 months since the accident here I am crying uncle because I'm having a hard time handling the work. That's some perspective for me to keep in mind, and which I clearly need to keep in my focus....in fact, I think therein may lie my "one thing." I think I want so badly to deny that any of that ever happened...but it did...and boy did it.
I probably will also consider blood work, Kristen and Michele. You never know, and frankly I truly don't know what my status is on those sorts of things. It's a good point of distinction to be clear with the doc about my level of activity whenever I do that.
You all really are the best! How did I ever train without you?!?! Thank you, thank you, thank you....for your support! I will keep you up to date on my status.
All great feedback from these wonderful training partners.
I am sorry you are in this place. I hope you feel your energy come back soon.
Linda always says that progress does not happen in a linear fashion. This is so true. Frustrating for sure. I learned this early on with EN. Then last year in the OS I was at the same level forever. Everyone told me my time would come. I did not buy it. I kept training though at the same old numbers and then one month after the OS I had a break through. A biggie! So now I trust that. If I need to back down my numbers I do. If I need to run Z1 I do. I do what my body can. You and I are at high watts for our size. You are super fit right now. Rest up. Get back in with maybe a new plan intensity and reset your mindset about how you are doing. You have come so far. Our numbers and what we can hold do not define us. I go in to each session saying I will do the best I can . Sometimes 85% is 78%. no biggie. I just do it and don't fret over it.
I hope you have a restful and happy Sunday. Coffee, jammies, football, naps. Eat super healthy tomorrow and lots of water. I believe in you Miss Olivia!!
XOCarrie
{{{Olivia}}}--don't do what I always did in situations like yours--tell myself it's over, it will never get better, I can't do this--and on and on. This is just a temporary set back. You will stand down, regroup, and repair. The one thing you don't want to do, at any cost, is dig a deeper hole.
You asked about knowing how to spot the signs of going into a major overreaching phase. Unfortunately, I think you have to experience it as you did to learn it. Stinks, huh? Be kind to yourself about all this. We have to test our limits to see how far we can go. How else can we know where the line is? But it takes the kind of state that you're in to teach us where it gets red hot. Now that you have had this experience heed the warning signs in the future before it takes too much of a toll. You'll likely push a little too hard for too long--we all do--but you learn to pull it back faster. For me, I call it feeling "frayed around the edges." It's just a feeling--headache-y, HR climbing just walking up the hill with the dog, motivation to hit the workouts nil, and just feeling "frayed." I am listening to that more this OS than I have in my life, and I feel like I'm hitting it out of the park almost every workout. But you know the price I paid last year to figure this all out. I was "that girl."
Love--LP
You have received some great advice thus far. IMO you need to rule out hormonal issues and illness. That aside: I dealt with overtraining during my first shot (only shot so far) at an IM. I dug myself into a hole that took 6-7 months to get out of. I was tired all the time and would often fall asleep on the couch after dinner at 6:30 and for sure be in bed by 8 pm with 10 hours of sleep/night often with a lunch nap of 20-80 mins. My wattages were going down, not up, over time and my runs were broken into chunks like you have been doing them. I would develop heart arythmias during rides and runs (happened a number of times during the IM also). Stand down!
Work only works IF you recover. If you aren't recovering then it does you more harm than good to train further. 3-4 days rest likely isn't enough. It sounds like you are past over-reaching.
I worked with a DC that works with the likes of C. Lieto on his nutritional pieces. Scott Bergman, D.C. his website is: http://www.chirokinetics.com/index.html
Vince
It's funny that you would point out the bit about not assuming it's all over. My mind did go there for a bit! You read me like a book. I do know that's not true though. But knowing and acting accordingly are two wholly separate things!
I did have my "lie in" a la Chris S's advice, drank water and Nuun, have eaten fairly well (although I probably could've used a few more veg), and did a load of reading!! Part of my reading was read that 50+ Recovery etc. forum. Really amazing insights and thoughtfulness there that I don't think is limited to those over 50. Looking forward to an early night in the sack tonight as well....
At the risk of belabouring this point....I'm trying to attach my PMC to see if I can learn something, with your input, about reading my data in relation to what on what I've been feeling.
That big spike in ATL was probably the start of my trouble. I did some dumb a$$ things there. Came back from vacation in FL when I really only ran, and then immediately hit the Power Clinic test, and then slammed three additional tough bike workouts into that week I was back. Maybe there are some other anomolies in there too. Who knows? I am also going to look at my input data to see if maybe I messed up the download or the input of some of my manual runs...I don't get the spike.
My CTL still is moving in the right direction, though. So is that what I should be paying the most attention to?
I guess if I'd have read into this chart back in week 12 and laid off at that point and rested, I might have been better off now. Possible?
What other data might I look at to help me read some facts into what could be just a mental protest against continued hard work?
Two rest days in a row as of today. Feeling ready to ride tomorrow....albeit with a tad bit of concern.