Last OS it was 2.5/2.5 but some had trouble hitting the intervals. The hack was to shorten them but get the total time in. Some went 1.5/1.5 or 2/2. In the end it, you want 10' total ON.
If you can do 2.5/2.5 then do 4. That is what we had last OS.
If you can only get 2/2 then do 5.
Early versions were 30"/30" - I've never done them but I can image that the short recoverys get shorter the more you do.
The main idea is getting your intervals at or near 120%. If you cant hold it for the interval, cut it short. Just remember - these are going to HURT BAD. No getting around that.
Yes, they are sooo much fun! I plan to start w/ maybe 30/30's or 1/1 and progress to 2.5/2.5 as I adapt. Maybe even wnd up with 4 x 4/4 when we get to 15 minutes of "on" in later VO2 progression. I figured I would change it up as I adapt and keep "shocking" the body. Anyone else have an opinion on this??
Yeah Steve..."fun"! A lot of cycling coach's state that 5 x 5' @ ;VO2 max wattage is the "gold standard". Probably more than us triathletes need since we do THREE sports instead of one but I figure it would be good to aspire to get reasonably close. Last year I worked up to 5 x 3' and survived. Why not??? Will let you know if I survive January....
I will try for the 2.5s from the start but, honestly, I am not sure I can hold it. Another key point is to keep the off period at 50% or more. If doing less that the 2.5, like 1 or 1.5, go for 65% in the off period between each rep........
I would be very cautious on the VO2 stuff. Trying to be a Mr. Macho Man and doing 5X5' can be done but more than likely at the cost of some training after that and maybe even the rest of the OS. I was in the early days bike hack and I think we ended up working up to doing 18' or 20' total of VO2 stuff ( like 3X6 or something crazy). I was totally waisted as of course I (Mr. Macho 4.3 w/kg guy) had to be able to hold them and this cost me to be totally fried, had to take some serious down time and never was normal for at least a month in training. The result was my FTP (which was at all time high right after hack) went down considerable and had to sorta start over when my season plan started for IM.
In other words, even if you think you can handle these easy be careful as the accumilative fatigue from them creeps up on you after weeks in and out.
Good stuff. The kind of experience I'm looking for. I don't think I'm up for 5 x 5!!!! But did 5 x 3' last year and tolerated it ok. Was just curious what other's experiences have been! Might just leave it at 3 minutes unless I'm feeling incredibly recovered every session. Thx!
The other variable is what power to use on your VO2 max? On average, 120% of your FTP is prescribed but the optimal power to use is your average for a 5 minute all-out test. Which is the reason many peeps test the bike in the OS by doing a 20 min all-out test (and use 95% of that as an estimate for their FTP), then 10 mins easy, and then a 5 min all-out test. My 5 min test was 245 watts and my FTP is 215 watts — which is 14% of my FTP. This was the reason I couldn't hit the 120% the plan called for. This suggests my VO2 max is limiting my FTP gains and probably explains why I didn't increase my FTP over the 14 weeks of the OS. Just my 2 cents.
I believe the recommended off percentage is 60%. So Vo2 max at 120% and off time at 60%. it's not like the FTP intervals where you get 2-4' of what ever you want to recover.
@ Jeff - I'm not sure you want to start on the 30/30's. There was just better results from the longer vo2 interval so if you start with 30/30's you will be leaving something on the table. Now how far past 2.5's you go I don't have a recommendation for that.
Maybe it's a combination of vo2 time with a bit of an easier week if you want to call 2/2 easier. So start at 2.5, then 3's, 2's then 3.5's, 2's and 3's, but as Trent mentioned be aware of the danger from too much vo2 hammering.
The other variable is what power to use on your VO2 max?
On average, 120% of your FTP is prescribed but the optimal power to use is your average for a 5 minute all-out test.
Which is the reason many peeps test the bike in the OS by doing a 20 min all-out test (and use 95% of that as an estimate for their FTP), then 10 mins easy, and then a 5 min all-out test.
My 5 min test was 245 watts and my FTP is 215 watts — which is 14% of my FTP. This was the reason I couldn't hit the 120% the plan called for. This suggests my VO2 max is limiting my FTP gains and probably explains why I didn't increase my FTP over the 14 weeks of the OS.
Just my 2 cents.
Cheers
Peter
@ Peter:
I'm having trouble understanding the last few sentences (in bold). Are you stating a physiologic fact and if so is it something you can target or are you pointing out the nuances of the variation is testing methods? Do you think your conclusion would hold if you tested using another method say the 20/2/20 method to arrive at your FTP?
Hi Rick - sorry for not being clearer. The points I was trying to make were these: — the best training response to these VO2 max bike intervals occurs around the power you can sustain for 5 minutes. In most people this is around 120% of their FTP. — in some people a low VO2 max limits the FTP gains you can achieve from Zone 4 intervals (95 to 100% of FTP), and these people typically have a 5 min max power close to their FTP. — I think I am one of these people at the moment. — the 20 min all out test (and using 95% of that as an estimate of your FTP), followed by 10 mins easy, and then the 5 min all-out test is doable in one session whereas if you did the 20/2/20 test, it would be very hard to follow that with a 5 min test.
Comments
4x(2.5/2.5)
5x(2/2)
10x(1/1)
Make sense?
So warm up and then 10 sets of 1 minute VO2 1 minute rest?
Warm up the do sets, yes.
If you can do 2.5/2.5 then do 4. That is what we had last OS.
If you can only get 2/2 then do 5.
Early versions were 30"/30" - I've never done them but I can image that the short recoverys get shorter the more you do.
The main idea is getting your intervals at or near 120%. If you cant hold it for the interval, cut it short. Just remember - these are going to HURT BAD. No getting around that.
Good luck.
Thanks Steve...I got it now
Yes, they are sooo much fun! I plan to start w/ maybe 30/30's or 1/1 and progress to 2.5/2.5 as I adapt. Maybe even wnd up with 4 x 4/4 when we get to 15 minutes of "on" in later VO2 progression. I figured I would change it up as I adapt and keep "shocking" the body. Anyone else have an opinion on this??
Yeah Steve..."fun"! A lot of cycling coach's state that 5 x 5' @ ;VO2 max wattage is the "gold standard". Probably more than us triathletes need since we do THREE sports instead of one but I figure it would be good to aspire to get reasonably close. Last year I worked up to 5 x 3' and survived. Why not???
Will let you know if I survive January....
I will try for the 2.5s from the start but, honestly, I am not sure I can hold it. Another key point is to keep the off period at 50% or more. If doing less that the 2.5, like 1 or 1.5, go for 65% in the off period between each rep........
In other words, even if you think you can handle these easy be careful as the accumilative fatigue from them creeps up on you after weeks in and out.
Just sayin' from an old experienced hacker!!
Good stuff. The kind of experience I'm looking for. I don't think I'm up for 5 x 5!!!! But did 5 x 3' last year and tolerated it ok. Was just curious what other's experiences have been! Might just leave it at 3 minutes unless I'm feeling incredibly recovered every session. Thx!
On average, 120% of your FTP is prescribed but the optimal power to use is your average for a 5 minute all-out test.
Which is the reason many peeps test the bike in the OS by doing a 20 min all-out test (and use 95% of that as an estimate for their FTP), then 10 mins easy, and then a 5 min all-out test.
My 5 min test was 245 watts and my FTP is 215 watts — which is 14% of my FTP. This was the reason I couldn't hit the 120% the plan called for. This suggests my VO2 max is limiting my FTP gains and probably explains why I didn't increase my FTP over the 14 weeks of the OS.
Just my 2 cents.
Cheers
Peter
I believe the recommended off percentage is 60%. So Vo2 max at 120% and off time at 60%. it's not like the FTP intervals where you get 2-4' of what ever you want to recover.
@ Jeff - I'm not sure you want to start on the 30/30's. There was just better results from the longer vo2 interval so if you start with 30/30's you will be leaving something on the table. Now how far past 2.5's you go I don't have a recommendation for that.
Maybe it's a combination of vo2 time with a bit of an easier week if you want to call 2/2 easier. So start at 2.5, then 3's, 2's then 3.5's, 2's and 3's, but as Trent mentioned be aware of the danger from too much vo2 hammering.
Gordon
@ Peter:
I'm having trouble understanding the last few sentences (in bold). Are you stating a physiologic fact and if so is it something you can target or are you pointing out the nuances of the variation is testing methods? Do you think your conclusion would hold if you tested using another method say the 20/2/20 method to arrive at your FTP?
Thanks.
— the best training response to these VO2 max bike intervals occurs around the power you can sustain for 5 minutes. In most people this is around 120% of their FTP.
— in some people a low VO2 max limits the FTP gains you can achieve from Zone 4 intervals (95 to 100% of FTP), and these people typically have a 5 min max power close to their FTP.
— I think I am one of these people at the moment.
— the 20 min all out test (and using 95% of that as an estimate of your FTP), followed by 10 mins easy, and then the 5 min all-out test is doable in one session whereas if you did the 20/2/20 test, it would be very hard to follow that with a 5 min test.
I hope that makes sense.
Cheers
Peter
Thank you Peter.
That makes a lot of sense. Sorry to make you dumb it down.
Rick