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An STers Approach to Raising FTP

jmoss70jmoss70
in General Training Discussions

Interested in what the group thinks of this variation of OS-type training.  SeasonsChange is one of the many dbags on ST so you can't believe everything he says.  But I am intrigued by the amount of training @ 105% and above that he claims to be doing.

Thoughts?

 

 









Re: What's the best cycling workout you can do on a bike trainer? [johnnie cocaine] [In reply to] 		Quote | Reply

1. 2x20mins @ 100% FTP w/ 5min rest between

2. 20mins @ 105% FTP (all out)

3. 6x4mins @ 113% FTP (VO2max) w/ 3.5mins rest between
















bonesbrigade



Nov 27, 11 12:08



Post #16 of 21 (688 views)






Re: What's the best cycling workout you can do on a bike trainer? [SeasonsChange] [In reply to]
Quote | Reply









SeasonsChange wrote:
1. 2x20mins @ 100% FTP w/ 5min rest between

2. 20mins @ 105% FTP (all out)

3. 6x4mins @ 113% FTP (VO2max) w/ 3.5mins rest between


I like this - Would you do each of those with a day of easy between (or another sport)? Or do 1-3 in a row, then a day or two of easy and repeat until you hate your existence?

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SeasonsChange



Nov 27, 11 12:13



Post #17 of 21 (677 views)






Re: What's the best cycling workout you can do on a bike trainer? [bonesbrigade] [In reply to]
Quote | Reply







i did



2, 3, 2 for 6 weeks then

1, 2, and 2x30mins @ 95% ftp with 5mins rest for another 6 weeks



saw pretty huge gains from it and ran 40mpw, swam 2 days a week.





 

 

 

Comments

  • tuckermtuckerm
    Well, I guess it is possible. The 20min @ 105% is the one that really jumps out as ridiculous. But again possible. I'd love to know what type of running he was getting in because the intensity seems a bit much. But looking at what he did, or claims to have done, yes he should have seen big gains.
    There is no reason we can't do 2x20' 2-3 times a week. Rich has said so himself, but he fears mutiny after a little while. Plus i would have to think that run gains would be non-existent. It would be interesting to try.
  • Coach RichCoach Rich
    20' at 105% isn't unreasonable if you're on a hill and climbing with music or with a couple friends.
  • gilliattgilliatt
    I think it would probably work too. On the surface the volume looks nice, tough to say how we would all react to the intensity.
  • kurshingkurshing
    It also matters how you calculate FTP as well...not all FTP tests are the same as I have learned.
  • William JenksWilliam Jenks
    He's actually doing more run volume by time (I think) than biking.

    Assume 7-8 mph effectively (warmup, cool down, etc) and 40 mpw is 5 hours or so. About 4 hours on the trainer. Presumably 2 hours in the pool. Total volume pretty manageable. How much total intensity is manageable is another matter.

    And I agree with Stephen...not all FTP tests are the same. But that's made up for in part by the "95-100%" or "80-85%" too.
  • jhbinscjhbinsc
    When he says he runs 40 mpw, it may all be Z1 type running and same for swimming perhaps as he seems clearly focused on biking gains. Probably doable for the time period he quotes too IMHO. However, I'd assume there's no way to get appreciable run gains during that block for the vast majority of normal humans. EN has us doing a good bit of FTP and VO2 on bike and run for 20 weeks! Seems more impressive than what he's doing.
  • jhbinscjhbinsc
    Also meant to mention his 6 x 4' @ 113% is different than trying to hit 120%. MAy be apples and oranges here. The big time cyclists locally here idealize 5 x 5' on 5' rest at VO2 max as the gold standard for VO2 work. Guess it depends on what % of FTP you call VO2 and how you determine your FTP too!
  • astasicastasic

     Just for the sake of argument, VO2max is defined as 105-120% of FTP. The fact that EN targets 120% does not really mean that say 110% is not VO2max work, much like EN selecting 5K pace instead of IP for running VO2max intervals. The benefits are there but the recovery cost maybe less, and 120% may send a good number of people anaerobic as the VO2max is a range and 120% being the very upper limit per current science. And as a matter of fact, if you read comments from EN members during their 120% work, huge majority is struggling to hit 2.5min at that level over and over, just confirming that they have gone anaerobic. It is the same analogy of being incapable of running 800m intervals with 400m recovery at IP per Daniels.

    So yes, I would say 5x5min(5min) at 110% is a legitimate, very beneficial VO2max workout. I am not a cyclist though.

  • Tom GlynnTom Glynn
    I think it's a very strong workout. I would probably crack image
  • Coach PatrickCoach Patrick
    Yeah, that combined week would be pretty tough. We are doing somewhat similar stuff (2 x 15 twice a week right now) and there's no way I could do 5 x 4' at 113%....I am getting 15 total minutes in of VO2 work and that's broken down into 1 and 1.5 minute chunks...
  • astasicastasic

     With exception of option 1. and 2. I would not subscribe to 3. I cannot do that in a single workout, maybe 2 workouts. Not in a stand alone cycling focus let alone tri week. The most I have done was 16min total as 4x4min(4min)@110%. That is where I stop. Going over 20min total not for me nor does the science say it is anymore benficial. However, you will always have athletes and coaches that defy the gravity. It may really work for some, but not for most, including the gifted once.

  • Chris M.Chris M.

     If he can do all of that in one session he needs to re-test his FTP.  

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