Raising FTP

joehill

Ok.  Need some help from the team.  I started with EN about a year and a half ago and have seen some pretty dramatic increases in my run.  I PRd my HIM run about a month ago from 2 hr before EN to 1:45.  However, my bike has seen a lot less improvement.  My FTP has gone from 204 to 211 over that time which seems low to me based on the numbers I see posted.  I have been finishing in the top 10 of my age group (46 yrs old) and the bike is always the poorest compared to others in my age group.

I started the OS on Monday with a subpar FTP test of 205 and wondering if there are any suggetions for upping that number.  Increase rides? Increase intensity? Change focus?   Coach P mentioned completing the OS and then throwing in a 4 week bike focus right before the 12 week build.  Sounds like a good plan but wanted to see if there were any other suggestions out there.

Thanks,

Joe

 

William Jenks

Joe-

I'm in kind of the same boat. I'm 47. :-)

If you're finishing in the top 10 with a ~210 W FTP, you must be a good swimmer and runner and be relatively small. Remember that W/kg is a better measure (though still imperfect) than just Watts.

I started in April 2010 after a pure run-focused winter...but I also made big run gains (well, relatively big) in the run the following winter with the OS, while my bike got more "solid" at the tested FTP, bu didn't really go up that much from one year to the next.

I think P's advice is sound. I would add to that that you have only so much mental focus, and that you can really choose to use it on the bike during OS. I think it's sometimes easier for guys with a bit more of a running background to understand what "work" is on the run than on the bike. And with a Dec 1 start, you'll be able to do that bike focus outside, which is PERFECT. I am continuously learning more about how to push past certain limits on the bike. I'm still learning. This year I'm hoping to translate that to bigger actual FTP gains.

If you have time, you could do your OS, take an easy week to reset, then 4 week bike focus (outside, hopefully), then a swim-heavy week (to recover a bit) and into your build.

I ripped my hamstring on Tuesday of week 1 of my OS (playing soccer), and that more or less forced me into a bike focus for a substantial period of time. So I'm not following the advice I'm giving you...I'm actually doing weeks that are much more heavily bike weighted than run weighted now for obvious reasons. All I can say is that I was forced into an experiment but I am embracing it now. I will report.

Peter Greagg

@ Joe x2 what William said, particularly about being more solid around your FTP.
I had just about no FTP gains over the whole 14 weeks of the OS. I was a bit disappointed although when I prepared for a HIM, I noticed that my ABP rides of 2 hours were all in trhe 0.87 IF range - a big increase from last season, and I was recovering well.
My take is this, even if your FTP isn't going up, with all the EN work we do it must increase your bike fitness. In my case it appears to have pushed up the right hand side of my mean maximal power. As a result, I can sit on a "hotter" IF in races than before even though my FTP isn't any higher.
FWIW

Cheers
Peter

Tom Glynn

If you read Coggan and other power gurus, the science says the best way to raise FT is to ride a lot right at or just below your FT. If your not riding there, the sweet spot for the "easy" riding is 87% to 93% of FT. Sounds a lot like OS. Lots of intervals; 2x 20 are highly rated!

Look at your data after every ride to confirm lots of zone 4 stuff.

Coach Patrick

Thanks all for chiming in. My main point to Joe, and all the others who PM or email me looking for insider tips is this: boosting your FTP is hard work. The best tool we have for boosting your FTP is the OS. Do the OS to raise your bike and run, and then, when the weather is nicer, we can put in a solid bike block on top of your OS bike fitness. I am usually 325-330 FTP in season, am at about 307 now after 4 weeks of OS when I tested at 300. Getting back up there will take me another 8 weeks roughly...but once I am back, i can really get to work.

2012 goals = 340 FTP and 80kgs = 4.25 w/kg

jhbinsc

+1 P. Exactly. Raising FTP is tough work no doubt but the more time you can ride close to your FTP the better off you'll be at your next tri. Trust the EN program and OS and you'll see the gains. Plus the mental toughness of all the hard work is a bonus for gutting out a race!

Coach Rich

This is what works for me:

• Pretty much year round I can do 3-4x very hard rides per week. 5x is/becomes counter productive.
• Treat your FTP interval sessions like a race. These are THE most important valuable sessions for making you stronger on the bike. Do the math on how many of these you have until your race and you'll see that every one of these sessions is extremely valuable. I do my best to do EVERYTHING right for these -- be smart with scheduling workouts around them, show up with my mojo max'ed (much coffee, tunes, do my best to get people to join me, choose venues on which I have a long history of performances, etc), and commit myself to turning myself inside out.
• For every other ride, my default gear is 80-85% or higher. With the exception of 4hr+ aerobar rides on the tri bike, I never intentionally ride at a less than 80% effort unless it's admin time. I chose routes, riding times, riding partners, etc that basically going as hard as I can for the length of the ride. So, for example, a 2.5hr total hammer ride is preferred over a 3.5hr ride with admin time, until I get into race prep, at which time volume begins to have a priority.

Finally, use to the powermeter to help you get your mind right. For me this largely involves:

• Benchmarking: I repeat the same routes across the season and across the years. I have informal times, Pnorm, IF and TSS benchmarks for pretty much every ride I do. I use these to hold me accountable, every session.
• Focus on the number, not the pain. I found that if I staple my nose to the dial and focus on the number, the noises in my head tend to go away.
• Seek out riding parters, routes, and training venues that help you with the above. For me, anything less than 80% is viewed as wasted time. I lose my mind if I'm with a group of guys who noodle for an hour before climbing for 2hrs, etc. I'm basically riding hard within a block of the ride start and if the social dynamic for a group ride is counter to that, I don't go back. As such, I'm very particular about who I invite on rides.

 

Trent Prough

I think P., Jeff, and Rich have brought out great points and the underlying theme I believe is the Mental aspect of it all. After much experience and riding like yourself with a year and half of EN you know WORK but you have to go into every bike workout with the MENTAL game of turning yourself inside out in a workout. Most think that's only for racing but to get better and see improvement you have to do in training, then you begin to believe you an hold the new higher levels (watts) and before you know it you are seeing nice gains in FTP.

jhbinsc

Jeez Rich, that's hard core even for you! I tend to focus on my running first and bike secondarily but my cycling is stronger than my running. But I see what you're saying and it makes complete sense. Guess we are all an N=1! Wish I lived closer cuz you'd be fun to ride with!

joehill

Thanks to all for the advice! Definitely need to work on the mental focus and turning myself iniside out on the OS intervals. I really struggle on the trainer sometimes and need to work hard on making those intervals critical. I also think I am going to change my schedule to transition from the OS to a big bike block and also try to make it to the Ashville camp. After that I should be able to get ready for a July/Aug HIM and B2B Full in mid Oct.

Need to learn to suffer as much on the bike as I do the run!!!

Thanks again.

Dave Campbell

Joe, I'm in Raleigh too. If you want to meet up for some riding sometime, just let me know. I've been doing these plans for years and it is hard work, but delivers results.

Coach Rich

Posted By Jeff Brandenburg on 02 Dec 2011 06:26 PM

Jeez Rich, that's hard core even for you! I tend to focus on my running first and bike secondarily but my cycling is stronger than my running. But I see what you're saying and it makes complete sense. Guess we are all an N=1! Wish I lived closer cuz you'd be fun to ride with!

 

 

My point is that over the years I've trained with a wide variety of people. The people who get faster the fastest are people who are confortable with making themselves very uncomfortable. I've never seen someone become injured from riding too hard so the key is to make "hard" simply your default gear for everytime you get on the bike.

jhbinsc

Understood. Makes sense. I just have to portion my energy on the bike so I'm not too tired to run my prescribed paces. Us old geezers need more recovery time than you young bucks!

jmoss70

Posted By Rich Strauss on 02 Dec 2011 01:27 PM commit myself to turning myself inside out.

THIS is what I have learned in ~1 year of EN membership.  I have learned to make myself do things that I don't want to do, don't feel like doing or sometimes just hate to do.  I've started many rides thinking "I have no idea how I am going to do this workout today".  And then I just do it.  

The other thing that can't be emphasized enough is doing your FTP workouts with someone who has similar fitness or FTP.  This is sometimes not possible.  But if you can make a friend that has similar goals then you can/will raise your FTP.  

 

 

jhbinsc

Alternatively, you can delight in inviting your friends to come sit on your wheel during FTP intervals and chuckle as they pop off and become specks on the horizon...

I do turn around during the rest periods so they can get dropped again on interval #2...I'm not cruel.

Tom Glynn

 Jeff,  

 

with only 5 minutes of rest between sets, I usually don't make it back to my friends in time 

Coach Rich

I know that not everyone can make it happen, but doing intervals on a hill, with other people, is HUGE. Differences in FTP, w/kg, and staggered starts open up a fun world of competition and trash talking

jhbinsc

@Tom Are they still ACTUALLY your friends or do you merely THINK they are still your friends....

 

@Rich, great idea!

tuckerm

Posted By Tom Glynn on 21 Dec 2011 08:56 AM

 Jeff,  

 

with only 5 minutes of rest between sets, I usually don't make it back to my friends in time 

@Tom, why do you need to call Stark out like that?

jhbinsc

Ouch, cats out of the bag now....

Tom Glynn

@Tucker,

Official EN protocol; no naming names

samritter

 @ R,  I hear ya!   There are people that I refuse to ride with anymore, as they just slow me down.  They may blow me away in the run, but they are no where near keeping up with me on the bike(I don't think I'm that fast).  As I've heard someone say,  the only way to get faster is to go faster...