Anyone have experience racing 2 IM's 4 wks apart
I'm considering doing two IM's with only 4 weeks between them...Anyone tried this?
I have previously done 2 with 6 and 8 weeks apart with no problems...but 4 seems like a totally different animal...??
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I haven't done it but I've coached several people who have. You need to set realistic (low, frankly) expectations for the second race.
If I choose the new Ironman Sweden instead of Challenge Copenhagen, I'll have 6 weeks instead of 4 (after Roth)... should I expect any performance loss with 6 weeks apart?
The A race will be Roth (the first IM of the season)
Paul. Interesting. Basically he says recover fully (1-3 weeks.). Then back to full training right up the the second race. No "taper" for the second race.
@ Bo - I don't think there's a magic formula. After some IM's I've needed 3 months of recovery time, after others, I can get right back it it within days.
My one experience with IMs 6 weeks apart involved a trip to the med tent after the first one, and then a super performance (PRs on the bike, run and overall) in the second. Looking back at my training diary, I did one 6 hour ride, and 2 five hour rides during the interim. My long runs were 1 hour, 2.5 hrs, 2.25 hrs, 1.5 hrs, 1 hour. I was not following any particular protocol, just going with what I felt I could handle. That's the key, letting your body and your fatigue level be your coach. Set no expectations, and race each race independent of the other. In between, pay exquisite attention to cues from your body on how much rest you need. Oh, and it might help to structure the OTHER parts of your life in those 6 weeks to allow training and rest to have a high priority. I was working basically half time then, and could train on the days I felt I was able, not on the days I HAD to.
Sounds like fun to come back to Scandinavian country (Was there for a year in Sweden as exchange student in high school), see old friends, and do an IM. Maybe 2013 I'll come visit ya!!
I think I was around 4 weeks a few times. The successful time was modeled on getting back into it after about a week, doing same amount of work as in-season, and giving myself a week of taper. The not-so-successful time was getting back into it after 10 days, doing a lot of work, and giving a week to taper. second race has generally been better than my first. Go figure.
edit: in the end, just adjust expectations and have fun. I would say go for it!
I have now signed up for Ironman Sweden
Looking forward to your RR too as I have my sights on Sweden in 2013!
Good luck!
Also, how else would you recommend aiding in a quick recovery (nutrition, fancy gear, massages, whatever)? Thanks for any advice-Haven't pulled the trigger yet-but really considering it.
1. Recovery will be solid rest the week after the race. Strategically, the biggest player across the entire period between races will be sleep: if i can add an extra hour from what I hope will already be a habit of lot of nightly rest, then i think it will put me on track. But I'm talking 9+ hours a night, plus a 1hr nap after weekend sessions.
Massage ... maybe. Experience has shown me that yoga and stretching during the post-race week has accelerated recovery much more.
I think the rest of the stuff like compression and ice baths would be window dressing. They certainly ain't gonna reverse the damage from a full IM.
Also, go for a clean diet. I hit the sugar HARD after an IM, and it probably undermines the effectiveness of recovery. Don't do this.
2. Running will be as outlined in the plans, but the flavour on the month is HMP, with no long run of more than 90.' Maybe continuing 6 runs per week from in-season - I liked that frequency last year, and it was sustainable even when fatigue was highest. But 5 weekly runs is plenty. Don't expect to feel any pop in your legs for a while, and be prepared to decrease the duration of the LT intervals, but aim to get the overall 24' of work done.
3. no need for a RR. You just raced an IM, and that's your data set.
4. I liked keeping the ride schedule - especially long weekend rides - as close to the w/os written in plans as possible. Particularly the Sunday ABP ride. And despite prevailing EN advice on bricks, I'll be bricking Sat and Sun runs.
Good luck!
I've not done two close IM's under EN guidance but did IMMoo and IMAZ in 2009 under an old school high volume coach and I wasn't allowed to recover enough before resuming big wko's and I was very flat at IMAZ. I knew the last month of my training I was digging a hole but couldn't climb out. I didn't explode at IMAZ but actually went a minute slower at IMAZ on an easier course than IMMoo 10:12 vs 10:13.
I'd make sure I was fully recovered before 2nd IM. In this case, less training is more IMO since you just did the mother of all RR's!
- I intentionally held back at Louisville, especially on the bike and run. I didn't want to dig myself too deep a fatigue hole that I would not be able to recover from. I still find it amazing that IMLoo is a qualifier for that year's Kona.
- I did not have any time goals for my 2nd IM. My One Thing for that race was to run the entire marathon. My Other Thing was to enjoy the hell out of the day.
Four weeks is going to be tough. It can be done, certainly. But why?
In 09, I did a Kona/Arizona double, with mixed results. My second race was better than the first, due to execution errors at Kona. I got a PR at the second race.
Key thoughts: you don't need volume between the races, you've already got your Race Rehearsal(s) for the second IM under your belt with the first race and its preceding training. Focus instead on consistency of workouts (maintain frequency), and on 1-2 high value workouts each sport each week. High value is identified below
My advice for what to do in the time between the races:
1. Swimming - Start up again on Wednesday after the first race, doing only what feels OK through Sunday then do whatever your normal IM plan would call for the next 3 weeks.
2. Biking - Try an easy Saturday ride after the first race. If you can handle 2-3 hours, try getting in 3-4 rides a week for the next two weeks as: "long rides" - a 4 hour ride/30 minute brick instead of the race rehearsal, then the third week should include one day with1.5-2 hours @ steady 80-85% effort. Weeks 2 & 3 should also include one day for a little pop, say 6-10 minutes total work time @ VO2 max, and a third day 20-30 minutes @ FTP effort level. Throw some warm up and cool down miles on each side of all that, for a total bike ride time of 6-8 hours
3. Running - again, you don't need to worry about getting in long runs. Don't run at all for 7-10 days after the first race. Maximum run (done once in week 2 or 3) should be 1.5-2 hours, but in no case longer than 13 miles. Throw in 15-24 minutes @ half marathon pace (dividied into 2-3 intervals) after a warm up, and finish with 10-15 minutes or so @ marathon pace, the rest @ easy/long pace. As with biking, do a day of hard effort, say 4 x 400-600 @ 10K pace. Then one-two other days with bricks, after the long ride and one of the other bikes, 30-40 minutes in week 2, and 30 minutes in week 3.
Week four should be the standard EN taper for the final week.
Key is to focus on nutrition and rest in the week after the first race, then maintain nutrition during and after each workout in the final three weeks.
Remember: YOU DON"T NEED TO WORRY ABOUT VOLUME!!!! No 4200 yard swims, 2.5 hour runs, or 6 hour bikes!!!
His Post-IM / Recovery / Train / Taper plan sounds spot on. If you are able to manage work and life commitments so as to follow his guidance, I think you will be set up for a successful day at Louisville.