CIM Marathon - DNF Advice
Hello!
I raced CIM on Sunday and DNF'd. I'm not exactly sure why I failed. I could use some insight. This was my 3rd marathon, but the 1st where I really strove to go fast. Was my weekly mileage not enough? Too agressive of pace? Nutrition off?
I 5K tested with a 45 VDOT a few weeks before the race so I figured 3:45 was doable. Plus I'd been able to hold 8:37 for one of my 18 mile long runs. I thought I could push it after rest and taper. I realize that I missed a long run due to illness and also never went over 18 miles on any long run. Maybe that was part of the problem. I suppose I still struggle with picking the right pace for marathons. On my other 2 marathons, I also had to slow down considerably late in the race.
Pre Race Routine:
Day before, had an early dinner at Olive Garden. Ate spaghetti and meatballs, bread, and water. Had some chocolate cake at my brothers house later that night, around 8pm.
Went to bed around 9:30pm so really only got about 6 hours of sleep, but that felt like enough.
Got up and ate a couple of bananas and a protein shake. Drank a bottle of G2. I had about 550 cals total. Stopped drinking anything at 4pm. Got dressed, checked all my stuff and took off for the race around 4:45.
Event Warmup:
Got to event by 6:15. Had enough time to go to the portapotty and then 20 min warmup with 3 strides.
Race:
Tried to run the frist 5 miles at 8:50 pace, then from 6 to 20 run at 8:30. After that goal was to be at 8:35, but didn't make it to that point.
As far as nutrition. Drank 125 cals of G2 just before start. Ate 3 GUs, 1 every 45 minutes and 2 nuun tablets in my water bottle. Total was about 450 calories from start till I stopped 3 hours later. So that's roughly 150 cals/hour. Not enough?
Splits
1 08:43.6
2 08:51.3
3 08:49.1
4 08:50.6
5 08:51.3
6 08:34.3
7 08:27.9
8 08:29.6
9 08:32.1
10 08:27.7
11 08:30.9
12 08:28.5
13 08:31.1
14 08:30.6
15 08:31.0
16 08:30.0
17 08:32.9
18 08:36.1
19 08:32.0
20 09:18.9
I started training for this about 3 weeks after Ironman was done. I did the Vineman at the end of July. I did not go hard on my first runs. Eased into any hard paces. Followed FIRST running plan so 3 runs per week (1 repeat session, 1 tempo, and 1 long run) and 2 cross-training days. Below are my long runs (with paces) and total weekly mileage.
LongRun | AvgPace | Total
10 | 8:40 | 31
15 | 8:35 | 19
13 | 7:50 | 20
13 | 9:00 | 19
7 | 9:25 | 20
9 | 9:34 | 27
13 | 9:44 | 31
18 | 8:52 | 27
0 | 0 | 6
15 | 9:06 | 23
17 | 9:37 | 14
10 | 9:17 | 30
18 | 8:37 | 10
12 | 8:45 | 26
8 | 8:10 | 23
Tried to run the frist 5 miles at 8:50 pace, then from 6 to 20 run at 8:30. After that goal was to be at 8:35, but didn't make it to that point.
As far as nutrition. Drank 125 cals of G2 just before start. Ate 3 GUs, 1 every 45 minutes and 2 nuun tablets in my water bottle. Total was about 450 calories from start till I stopped 3 hours later. So that's roughly 150 cals/hour. Not enough?
Splits
1 08:43.6
2 08:51.3
3 08:49.1
4 08:50.6
5 08:51.3
6 08:34.3
7 08:27.9
8 08:29.6
9 08:32.1
10 08:27.7
11 08:30.9
12 08:28.5
13 08:31.1
14 08:30.6
15 08:31.0
16 08:30.0
17 08:32.9
18 08:36.1
19 08:32.0
20 09:18.9
I started training for this about 3 weeks after Ironman was done. I did the Vineman at the end of July. I did not go hard on my first runs. Eased into any hard paces. Followed FIRST running plan so 3 runs per week (1 repeat session, 1 tempo, and 1 long run) and 2 cross-training days. Below are my long runs (with paces) and total weekly mileage.
LongRun | AvgPace | Total
10 | 8:40 | 31
15 | 8:35 | 19
13 | 7:50 | 20
13 | 9:00 | 19
7 | 9:25 | 20
9 | 9:34 | 27
13 | 9:44 | 31
18 | 8:52 | 27
0 | 0 | 6
15 | 9:06 | 23
17 | 9:37 | 14
10 | 9:17 | 30
18 | 8:37 | 10
12 | 8:45 | 26
8 | 8:10 | 23
Thanks for any advice!
Enrique
0
Comments
Why didn't you finish (i.e. why did you feel the need to stop racing at mile 21)? That would be helpful information. Were you in pain? Did you have a medical issue? Considering you were hitting your paces for the first 19 miles and only slowing down slightly at mile 20, the information about why you completely stopped will be helpful.
150 cals/hour can be low. Why that low? How did your stomach feel?
Here are some answers to your questions and thanks for helping.
What happened was that at during mile 20, I started to feel some fatigue and tightness in my thighs. Eventually, it became a tightness that I've not felt before on any run before. That tightness started to feel like heaviness and by the time I was starting mile 21, my legs were too heavy to even lift any more and I had to stop. I could not even manage a jog. Walking was possible but slow and labored with thighs hurting and tight. I knew I couldn't run anymore and any attempt to finish would be a slow march with some labored jogging. I decided to just call it a day and save my legs for another time.
Regarding the 150 cals/hour... my stomach was a little sloshy sometime after 10 miles so I started cutting back on the H20. Other than that, my stomach felt fine. One thing that threw me off for this race was the lack of G2 on the course. I trained with it and was used to it and a couple days before, I realized that G2 wasn't offered. I had to rely on Gels which I never do in training. So I took 1 every 45 minutes or so. I'm not sure if this was part of my problem (i.e. not enough calories).
As for my mileage, I posted at the bottom of my original post. Due to schedule conflicts I was never able to get a long run above 18 miles. There was supposed to be a 20 miler and a 21 miler, but had to cut those to the 18's. I did get 2 x 18 milers and one x 17 that should have been 18, but ran out of time that day and cut it short 1 mile.
So what do you think?
First of all, sorry to hear about the DNF. Good to hear you’ve got a good attitude about it and are looking to troubleshoot.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I've never heard about that method of determining a goal pace. I like it because it's relatively easy based on the weekly mileage and a 10K race result. I was having a hard time figuring out what pace I should attempt for CIM. If I'd used this method, I'd have probably chosen something more like 4:00. Oh well, lesson learned!
So really, unless I increase weekly mileage, the primary way to improve marathon time is to improve speed at smaller distances?
@Enrique- Yes, you improve your Marathon time by getting faster at the 1/2 Marathon, You improve your 1/2 mary time by getting faster at the 5K and 10K. It's not much different than your bike FTP. The higher your FTP the faster you can push the bike.
It also sounds like that, in addition to going out too fast, you didn't have adequate fuel. If you are going to use the on-course nutrition, you need to know what they'll have including the flavor. I'm not a fan of using only on-course because you can't get enough in at the rest stops. I recommend carrying some. I think 150 calories is too low. Something else to play with during your training. I'd go up 5 - 10 grams of carbohydrates per hour and see how your stomach feels and how your workouts feel. I recommend between 45 and 60 grams of carbs per hour depending on what your body can take down. Also, don't take gels and sports drink at the same time. That can put too much stuff in your stomach that it can't handle.
Hope all this helps!
Good point. Very good point. After you posted this, I started Googling. I think that even if my pace were slower, as it should have been, I may have run out of gas because of that. In training, I was drinking G2 on my long runs and drinking around 30oz per hour. So that would be closer to 200 cals/hour. And usually I took Cliff Blocks with me to chew on when I felt hungry so add some calories there. I definitely was going on less than usual. I need to pay better attention to what's going to be offered at the race. Thanks for mentioning calories.
I've been doing some research and found this post (link below) by Coach Patrick on Marathon Nation about marathon nutrition protocol. I see from the chart there that I was potentially consuming on the border of what's considered Good/Light and Too Light as far as calories go. Maybe it would have been enough, but I was probably at high risk of running of gas.
http://www.marathonnation.us/long-run/marathon-nutrition-protocol-for-success/
Very interesting stuff.
Scott, very good point! Never thought about it that way before. I guess one of the reasons I've stuck with G2 is that it seems less expensive than the Gu Gels. I haven't run the numbers, but Gu Gels just always seem expensive to me when I buy them. But then, I've never priced them out by the box. I have to admit I LOVE the taste of the Vanilla flavor!
Yep. Exactly. I sooo don't want to make these mistakes again.
Thanks for the comment. Yeah, I come close to the 10K and HM paces, too. I decided this week after all of this reflection and information that I'm going to end my Tri season in September next year and then focus on the marathon training. I have unfinished business up in Sacramento. DNFing just doesn't sit well with me. CIM in December 2012.