Interesting Article on Fat Burning for Triathletes...
I don't really practice any of this (too hard for me just to train!), but the water only ride concept intrigues me. I think ENers would have to follow a modified version per the last paragraph given our intensity. For now I am just trying to regulate all the crap I put in my mouth as it is... 
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On the two RRs I used infinit. Other wise water only. I did have an issue at AZ due to eating a total of 100 calories the first 11 miles, but once I got sugar from grapes in me I was almost normal. Whatever normal was.
I started paleo to be healthier before my 12 week IM PLAN. Went from 192 to 165. It worked great. I the leanest I've ever been and healthy which is most important.
As far as performance at AZ, I feel I did okay overall with my 12:20. Would it have been better eating other ways? Time will tell. January OS will be a good gauge.
During the last two years, for my long ride saturdays, I've eaten my breakfast smoothie (~450cals) then rode for 2-4 hours in the TX summers with nothing but water (+ nuun, so 0 calories). Any ride longer than 4 hours, I use 1/2 strength infinit - so ~135 cals/bottle, one bottle per hour. And, of course, anything under 2 hours (including the OS) is pure water (maybe with nuun).
Likewise, for long runs, eat the breakfast smoothie then ran for 2.5 hours with nothing but water.
I found it's something I can do relatively easy, but I don't know if I could without the smoothie cals ahead of time.
@Paul You did water only for all your long rides during IM training? Stunning? Where you even "bonky" during the 4+ hour rides or the ABP rides? I can see going long and ez (<75%) on the bike and run but the intensity included in EN plans make me fuel w/ simple sugars during most of my IM training. I used to train a lot on water only when doing LSD pre EN but now I make sure I have the sugar to burn for all the intensity. Just curious if I'm understanding you correctly and how you do it! <img alt="" src="http://members.endurancenation.us/DesktopModules/ActiveForums/themes/_default/emoticons/shocked.gif" />
Sorry. Edit...water only on long runs. Should say rr plus long saturday rides used infinit. Was not able to do sunday ABP rides after the first 4 weeks due to work. So, I didnt practi ce eating on the run and that showed race day. Man I screwed up. Lesson learned.
OK, got you now. That helps clear it up! Thx.
I just finished a book about training for cyclists and teaching your body how to burn fat is one of the key points he makes. I won't tell you the rest of what the book says about training for fear of being banned from the team.
I have experienced physical proof that working my go fast muscles also provides fitness benefits to my go slow muscles during my 3 years with EN. No doubt that happens. I also believe that the way we do things works...work works. My interest is really in making sure I am operating, metabolically, as efficiently as I need to in order to be successful during the IM distance race.
Just curious what people think...does our metabolic system have the same positive adaptations that our musclular system does when we go fast in order to build both our go fast and our go slow systems?
This is something Bob Seebohar also promotes. I'm going to tinker with it in 2012 since I've got a metabolic cart to play with. He advocates doing it with both eating and LSD workouts.
I think whatever way you look at it, it's smart to play around with it in the off season and get it figured out. As Tim said, when you are time restricted and trying to get the most out of every workout, you risk not meeting your goals. Everyone always says don't try anything new on race day, but I'm finding that to be true during A race training blocks as well.
@Penny, I'll be interested to hear what you find out with your metabolic tests. That would be some great information.
Penny,
Curious what you are using for a metabolic cart. When I think Metabolic Cart I envision intubated in the ICU. I think we used to have a"tent" like thing to but never saw it used. Just curious how you would do this.
I experimented with non-fueled long runs this last summer in preparation for a trail marathon. I didn't take anything but water for any runs 2 hours or under and eventually found that it worked just fine. Since my mountain biker support crew on the trail run had a flat tire and I ran without nutrition for a long portion of it, I was definitely glad I had put that training time in. The rest of the time, I tend to eat mostly Paleo. I don't know how much I'll have to modify that for IM training, not sure if I can eat enough bananas and yams to sustain me
A quote from ark sisson on this study...”
There’s been limited modern research on “train low, race high,” and it’s pretty compelling. One study found that athletes who trained twice a day on alternate days and thus had lower muscle glycogen during the second training session almost quadrupled their muscle endurance, while athletes who trained once a day on consecutive days barely doubled theirs by study’s end. Both groups of athletes performed the same amount of volume and intensity, but only one group went into every other training session with depleted glycogen –and that group saw the greatest benefits to both work capacity and energy efficiency (glycogen and fat).”
Thoughts?
By train low race high hes referring to glycogen stores. This team rocks. What a great place to have a conversattion. Thanks everyone.
Fascinating study. I've known several high level long distance triathletes who were firm believers in doing at least some of their training in a depleted state. My opinion is that it is useful in training IN MODERATION. Particularly during periods where you might be doing a bit less intensity and going a bit longer. Not much of that in the EN plans but I still have some opportunities to practice this. Anybody else?
I do most of my long rides teetering on the edge of bonking mostly because I don't like to feel full while training and I don't like to eat until I get hungry. Even at IM Louisville, I took in far fewer calories than one of our teammates that I outweigh by 60 pounds! Maybe doing this every once in a while could produce some benefit but as it was I felt chronically fatigued and rarely had breakthrough training performances all summer long.
The type of "easy" workouts these articles refer to are at an intensity much lower than even the "easy" EN ABP rides. The closest thing to easy we do is an IM race rehearsal and even those are at a higher intensity than what they are talking about.
I cannot fathom the paleo diets people are talking about.
But why? Why the paleo? Are you gluten intolerant?
For me, eating paleo has completely changed the way my body feels, works out, and recovers. I can't *believe* how fast I recover now, whether from a hard workout or from a race. I even made a video this summer the day after I ran a hilly trail marathon, because my legs were literally so fresh-feeling that I could jump up and down like crazy, very different from the last marathon I ran.
http://ironmom.blogspot.com/2011/09/incredible-post-marathon-recovery.html
When I was training in karate this spring, my partner and I would both go home covered with bruises on our arms and shins. Her doctor even went so far as to give her materials on spousal abuse (because they looked like defensive bruises). The difference was that mine were healed completely by the next morning, whereas hers were purpling and tender. I also broke my arm this summer (radial head fracture) and was amazed at how fast the bone and soft tissues healed. Even my ortho and the people in his office were blown away at how quickly I was healing.
There have been other smaller details, the arthritic stiffness I was feeling in joints (especially hands, feet, and knees) in the mornings disappeared within 4 weeks of removing grains from my diet. And the muscular healing really accelerated when I dropped most dairy and focused on getting my Ph balance back from being too acidic. So there's the short answer to "Why Paleo", at least for me. Here in week 6 of the OS, I can feel absolutely flogged after a workout, but basically back to normal and ready for more the next day. I just have to make sure to eat enough carbs, something you have to pay attention to while eating paleo.
Apparently, training low has a bigger training effect, but that the RPE is (much) higher at that power or pace relative to the properly fueled situation. Also, training low depresses the immune system, making you more suseptable to illness.
I have tried this approach on and off for a couple of years, at least for sessions shorter than about 80 minutes.
Recently I have resolved to fuel up for every session. Why, because I have recently been remined by Rich that I should approach each bike interval session like a race — and he was right. I have been short-changing the quality of a lot of my sessions.
As my siganture block shows, my FTP hasn't moved since June.
Others may have different results.
There's gonna be a lot of bonking going on when folks start trying to follow this new fad. Fuel your workouts!