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Different philosophy in tweaking my run training for next season

For whatever reason, I have a hard time following the EN run training.  Either I forget the intervals or I puss out on the hard intervals or whatever.  I just wasn't responding well to the run training.  I need to personally change it up.

I figure I'll simplify it with the program below (kind of a 1:2:3 zone training philosophy) that I think might work for me.  I conjured this up on my own but certainly was influenced by other methods (including EN).  It's easier from an accounting standpoint.

For short runs:

1/6 at Z5

1/3 at Z4

1/2 at Z3

An example being a 6 mile run.  1 mile at Z5, 2 miles at Z4 and 3 miles at Z3.

For long runs:

1/6 at Z4

1/3 at Z3

1/2 at Z2

An example being a 12 mile run.  2 miles at Z4, 4 miles at Z3 and 6 miles at Z2.

My last VDOT was 45.1.  I basically plan on only doing IM and 70.3 racing from here on out so I'm not real worried about my top end gears.  I get that speedwork makes one faster and I still incorporate a fair amount but probably less than the prescribed plans dictate.  My n=1 is I need to spend more time in the sweet spot (Z2/Z3) and build on that philosophy.  Similar to EN but different in execution.

Feel free to disect. 

Comments

  • I think this is somewhat similar to the concept RnP use when they split a run into Zone 2 out/Zone 3 back, etc. I've used the approach you suggest before and had good results. My previous training group used to call them EMT long runs for (Easy, Marathon, Tempo) paces where we gradually increased speed through the run. In general, I would try to speed up through the run, rather than slow down.
  • I thought about the order on whether to go faster>>>slower or slower>>>faster. I'm worried that I'd be able to hit the mark for two miles at Z4 during miles 11 and 12 (using my 12 mile long run example above).  Or even more daunting to think about holding a Z4 pace for three miles at the end of an 18 mile run.  I think it would be more manageable to run fast early and hold on to the slower pace later on than the other way around.  Maybe the short run can be slower>>>faster.

  • I notice on your 6 miler, you have no w/u or w/d and slowest pace is Z3. Personally, I need to get my old bones loosened up before hammering HM pace. Do you also do some easier running before and after?

  • Posted By Jeff Brandenburg on 07 Dec 2011 08:12 AM

    I notice on your 6 miler, you have no w/u or w/d and slowest pace is Z3. Personally, I need to get my old bones loosened up before hammering HM pace. Do you also do some easier running before and after?

     

     

    I would run a mile or so to begin at warmup pace.  I should've mentioned that.

    I plan on doing four runs per week: two six milers using the above formula, one long run (distance dependent on what I'm training for) and one easy recovery run (three miler at Z1/Z2).

  • Sounds good Bob. We all are an experiment of one and I'm interested in how you respond to this. Pls keep us posted.

  • I know you are not looking to train for stand alone marathons, but my best marathon focused training results came after I incorperated something similar to what Kevin W suggested as a center piece.

    All my weekly mid-distance runs (8 to 12 miles) started easy and built from there. Eight to 10 milers usually ended with Z4 efforts for the last mile or 2. Ten to 12 milers built to Z3 pace and was more of a steady hard run. The key was to learn to gauge my pace so every mile was the same or faster than the one before and not fade at the end. It teaches you alot about how much you still have in the tank compared to distance remaining. I found that those runs solidified my run durability and resulted in a string of PRs in the Half and Full marathon distances.

    The other key runs each week included a skill workout of hill repeats or Yasso 800's and a long steady run.
  • Steve - your comment about what's left in the tank has always been an issue for me. I tend to have too much energy left after the run. Partially on purpose (I'm not looking to completely destroy myself in hopes of hitting a certain time) and partially because I don't have a real great read on my long run gas tank... despite six HIMs and two IMs in the past two seasons. The only long course race that I felt completely spent after crossing the finish line was this year's Austin 70.3. That had way more to do with lack of run training and the f'n hills than pushing my limits though. I knew going into the race that my wheels were going to come off around mile 9 and it happened like clockwork. That third lap was a real struggle. That was just a conscious lack of preparation and even then pulled off a top 15% AG run.



    I'll do the six milers at slow>>>fast. I'll try that out with the long runs and see how my body responds... with an obvious & sensible build-up in distance.

  • Bob - I first learned to read the gas gauge simply by running till I felt like turning around. I'd go out for my mid-distance or long run with a general idea of how far/long the planned run should be and instead of hitting an exact number of miles or specific turn around time, I would run till I was ready to turn back (nearly all my outside runs are out-n-back).

    Early on I often misread my body and would come back completely trashed or ready for another lap. After a few mistakes, I 'got it' and could tell within a few minutes of failure, just where the half way point was. Knowing that feeling is great especially if other issues like heat, hydration or GI interfere. Using it as a tool you can decide if you want to be totally spent or fresh when you get home or to the finish line.

    Definitly not a magic bullet. Wont make you superman. But it is a great tool to have. I can't imagine driving a car/truck without knowing about how many miles I can go before I need a gas station.... why should running be any different?

    Keep us posted, I would love to hear you your 'tinker' works.
  • Bob, have you heard of the swing method by Dave Scott?
  • Kind of... I think. Is that where you run 30 seconds slower and then 30 seconds faster than a prescribed pace and then start to increase the time at the faster pace as your fitness improves?

  • Ya, you start out with a min of 20 minute block to a max of 30 min block in your long run. If your optimal pace is an 8 min mile then you would run 1 mile at 7:45-7:50 and altenate that with 1 mile at 8:45-8:50. You would do this for 3 weeks at which time you would keep the fast pace as is and chop some time off the slower pace so instead of slow at 8:45-8:50 you would run 8:35-8:40. This advice is for IM training. If you were going to be training for HIM he suggests 20-30sec off your optimal pace for the fast and 1 min difference, so if your optimal pace for HIM is 7:45 you would run your fast pace at 7:15-7:25 and your slower pace at 8:15 - 8:25. If you were training for a 10km race then you would run the faster paces at threshold and the slower paces at 25-30sec slower than that pace.
  • @B Did you train this way for Boston or for your tri's? Do you have any personal experience w/ it?

  •  I think there are two key elements in run training for long course triathlon:

    • Spend some time - 5-10% of weekly mileage - at a very hard effort/fast speed. This increases the number of neuro-motor units which can be called upon late in a race when muscles are getting tired and those units are starting to poop out.

    • Finish long runs at MP and "bricks" @ HMP to simulate the perceived effort level one encounters at the end of an HIM or IM. This is mental prep to induce a sense of confidence, as well as physical prep as per the above - you've increased the motor units available, but you still have to put them to use periodically for them to be effective come race day.

    You can design your running program however you like to accomplish these two goals. But ignoring them will result in less available "endurance".

  • Posted By Brenda Ross on 07 Dec 2011 02:06 PM

    Ya, you start out with a min of 20 minute block to a max of 30 min block in your long run. If your optimal pace is an 8 min mile then you would run 1 mile at 7:45-7:50 and altenate that with 1 mile at 8:45-8:50. You would do this for 3 weeks at which time you would keep the fast pace as is and chop some time off the slower pace so instead of slow at 8:45-8:50 you would run 8:35-8:40. This advice is for IM training. If you were going to be training for HIM he suggests 20-30sec off your optimal pace for the fast and 1 min difference, so if your optimal pace for HIM is 7:45 you would run your fast pace at 7:15-7:25 and your slower pace at 8:15 - 8:25. If you were training for a 10km race then you would run the faster paces at threshold and the slower paces at 25-30sec slower than that pace.



    I just might incorporate that philosophy into my long run training.  I like the thought of training around a certain goal pace.  I think training to a goal pace is okay assuming the goal is actually resonable and obtainable.

  • Hi JB - no I did not train this way for my recent Marathon and I do not have any experience, but I have a client who wants to try it this season, so I will give you feedback. I might try it out. Undecided at the moment.
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