The Joule vs Garmin Thread

Coach Rich

Hi All,

I know that we've had many discussions about the Joule vs Garmin as a bike powermeter monitor. My only direct experience is with the Joule. I don't have any experience with using any of the Garmins as a powermeter monitor. I'd like to consolidate everything on these topics into this thread so we can all reference it.

Joule

I like it because:

• It's an excellent powermeter monitor, displaying everything I need (power, IF, TSS, Pnorm and everything else) any way I want it to.
• I like reducing the number of moving parts and companies involved in my setup. My Saris Powertap talks to my Saris Joule and I download those files into Poweragent. I then move them in bulk into WKO a couple times a month.
• Good customer service. Between Wheelbuilder and Saris and I can get stuff fixed very quickly...not that anything has ever needed replacement.
• I don't need a GPS. I seldom get lost and don't need to download a file to tell me where I've been...cuz I was just there

Garmin units: please give us your thoughts in this thread

Scott Alexander

Cons I've experienced with my Joule:
- IF and TSS is diff on joule display vs what shows up in WKO+. Never been able to explain it; never heard from anyone here why it would be different.
-last 4 weeks of IM training, the joule distance tracking would start over at 40 miles. So, for IMAZ, it only recorded 82 miles as it dropped the first 40.
-emailing cust svc took three weeks to get a response; don't know about a call-in cust svc.

Jeff Sullivan

i've got one of each - 310 & 2.0 - each has its advantages

2.0 - don't like the cable req'd to download - lots of problems often locks up during download
- lately having intermittent problems transferring data from PA to WKO
- i would like gps so i could view my rides like i do on garmin connect
- +1 per rich above
- ride time font very small - difficult to read w/o glasses when riding hard

310 - i like the wireless upload
- it doesn't have "interval" feature (that i know of) - which comes in handy on our outdoor training rides
- it can simplify life on race day - only one device req'd - although i use both when on bike

William Jenks

If you don't want GPS, why would you bother with Garmin? I went out of my way to get Garmin because I wanted the course feature. For example, I loaded the WI course the first year I did the race and just had it there to follow (with power displayed as well) with no worries about getting lost. It lets me pre-map routes in unfamiliar territory without being concerned about riding alone.

"Garmin" also probably ought to be broken down between 310xt, 500, and 705/805.

TSS/NP/etc are coming to Garmin, but aren't there yet. That will change the calculus for some folks. 310 and 705 are not scheduled to get those.

I have only the 310xt and the 705. I have had no more data reliability problems than anyone I have heard of with Joules. I am unaware of any evidence that says one is much better/worse than the other. All Garmins are highly customizable in display. I doubt that there is much distinction between Joule and Garmin here.

Again, I don't have Joule, but the integration of the Garmin to WKO, GC, or TP are all very seamless. No extra work compared to Joule that I can tell.

Cary Blanco

I've never used a Joule and I've been happy with my Edge 705 and 310xt. I've had good luck with their customer service department when needed.

I agree with William about breaking it down.

The Edge 800 has NP/IF/TSS, the Edge 500 is getting it in next the next firmware release. When the FR910xt comes out it will have it.

Left out of this are the Edge 705 and FR310xt these units will not get the NP/IF/TSS firmware update. Although the FR310xt has current %FTP which is effectively current IF. They both can display current power, 3 second and 30 second average power.

Another point of discussion could be: Is this just for the bike or is it a run training and/or a swim/bike/run racing tool? If you get a 310xt or a 910xt, you're getting at least two (possibly/arguably three) training and racing tools.

John Stark

@ Scott - Only time I see the diff. between Joule and WKO is if my VI is high.  Other than that it is pretty similar.

 

 

GMAN 19030

I have been using Garmin devices since I got into this 3-4 years ago. I recently purchased a Cycleops 300 Pro Indoor Cycle which comes with a Joule 3.0.

I much prefer the Garmin. I think it has more functionality and is more user friendly. I like the IF/NP/TSS numbers on the Joule but my Garmin 500 will have that soon so I see zero advantage for the Joule.

Spokane_Al

I have a happy, satisfied Joule user since taking part in the initial EN group buy and think it is terrific. I have set the screen up for the metrics that are important to me and it continues to work virtually without fail.  Like all of my experiences over several years of using a PowerTap, I find it to be bulletproof, consistent and dependable.



After each ride I dump the data directly into WKO+ and the process is simple. Every so often I will also dump my rides that have accumulated into PowerAgent, before clearing the Joule, just to have a backup for my data.



I have not had any overwhelming desire for GPS on my bike rides, and the Joule meets my needs.

steveperx

I like the Joule, but have been unimpressed with the frequency and comprehensiveness of Saris' firmware updates. They take forever to put a new one out and it rarely addresses many known issues. I like the display and the interval function. Overall, it's terrific.

I've had trouble with my speed/distance data on the Joule, as it seems to not play nice with my (non-CycleOps) speed sensor. Would like to be able to use GPS for speed data outside, but that's not a deal-breaker. New Joule versions are supposed to have GPS, so I MIGHT go that direction if I want to upgrade.

GMAN 19030

If you want GPS, why go with Saris? That's what Garmin does. Their name is synonymous with GPS.

Coach Rich

What Al said. My Joule just works. I have a 4-5yr old 305 for the run that just continues to work so I see no reason to upgrade either until they break. But that's largely my personality: if I have a tool that performs well, I just continue to use it until it breaks vs upgrading to the latest and greatest: bikes, electronics, motorcycles, cars etc. I'm pretty monogomous :-)

mancona

Now that Garmin has TSS/IF/NP on some of the devices and it is coming to more soon, this really comes down to one thing in my mind - which power meter you have. I could go into much more detail so if there are specific questions let me know.

If you have a Saris PT Hub, the Joule works well with it and it is the easy solution as when you have a problem you call Saris and they can fix either.

If you have a crank or pedal based PM (Quarq, SRM, Vector, etc) - The garmin devices work really well with these types of PMs as they can actually correctly do a zero offset and you do not need separate speed sensors.

Personally, I would still use a garmin device with the power tap as I just trust it much more and I really like how flexible the data field layout is. I can have any of the 40+ data fields on any screen with 1 - 10 different fields showing at once. The other big benefit to Garmin is with the 310 or 910 you can buy one device and use it for swim/bike/run. GPS mapping and directions is nice to have, but I have never really needed.

Keep in mind I am sponsored by Garmin and have 3 garmin devices I use regularly right now so I am a bit biased. However, I did have a Joule for a week, and a lyc/powertap for 2 years so I feel i have been exposed to Saris's computers enough to fairly compare them.

Bob Irwin

I've had a Edge 500 and a PT since about 4-5 months before the Joule was released. The Joule wasn't an option, and the initial price of the Joule was quite a bit more. I've been very happy with the Garmin - reliable, easy to set up, easy to download data. I haven't missed having IF/TSS/NP. But pretty soon, I'll have it anyway.

TerryO

I have only used the Joule since I've had power (Quarq PM), but I've had nothing but problems with it. I've had Scott's problems and more and have emailed Saris support 3 times in the past with no response. Nothing pisses me off more than the unit dropping out dozens of miles (and power data) without me knowing it, on short and long rides. As someone who very closely tracks training time and distance from month to month, and year to year, to analyze where my training was in the past, and to plan where I want to be in the future, it is extremely frustrating to know that I have worthless cycling distance data. Also, if you use WKO+, Power Agent sucks. PA and the Joule just do not communicate well together with device agent or WKO+. In contrast, my Garmin 305 works flawlessly with DA and WKO+. I have dreamed many times about smashing the Joule with a sledgehammer into a million pieces. The only reason I haven't is because instantaneous readouts work during workouts so I can at least do intervals (even though I know recording will be screwed up), and because my 910 is on backorder.

Dino Sarti

I have zero experience with Joule, but from what I have seen in the EN Forums, I am jelious my 305/705's will not do NP/IF/TSS. Thankfully, my awesome wife preordered my 910 from Amazon for Christmas. According to Amazons last update, 910 should be here on 1/23.

I hear what people are saying about GPS. I have never been lost and really don't use it to navigate. My iPhone is way better at letting me quickly get my bearings. I do like seeing my course on a map though when I am done. It is fun and really gives texture when you review old rides. I like to post and share interesting routes via Facebook or email. Nerdy, I know....