Devil's advocate question about Power Clinic

charris

So I was quite interested in participating in the Power Clinic, but numbers are numbers and the video post on the subject seemed clear enough, so no Clinic for me this time.  I know it said "you can play if you want" - but I'm trying to train smart.

 

But here's a question that, coincidentally enough, occurred to me as I was sitting on my trainer doing 30/30s last week.  If I am, as the clinic post said, "better served doing more FTP work" (because of a relatively high pVO2max), why exactly am I doing a big block of VO2max work right now?  Wouldn't I be better off focusing on FTP (recognizing that it's not *just* VO2max work for this block, and that I'm going to see FTP gains as well of course).

 

I realize part of the reason for the FTP/VO2max/FTP blocks is changing stimulus, mentally switching it up, allowing the body to reap the rewards of the first block, etc.  So, to perhaps phrase the question a bit differently, if I am working on VO2max in this block anyway, why not work it even more efficiently/effectively by doing the clinic?  Why not raise the roof even more?  Is it just a risk/reward thing?

 

Or to approach it from a slightly different angle, given the tools and tests we have at our disposal nowadays, if someone was to completely customize the EN plan for me specifically (custom tailored instead of off the rack), would they do a pV02max/FTP ratio check every once in a while during training and then, depending on the results, possibly say "skip the VO2max Craig, FTP work is better ROI for you right now"?

 

Perhaps having a more detailed understanding of what does/doesn't happen as part of the clinic would help clarify this, but without those details, I thought I'd ask.  Just curious, mainly - I'm really happy with the gains I've seen so far and have no reason to expect anything but more of the same.

 

Another related thought (this is what happens when you can't ride outside) - I'm hypothesizing that the reason I have a relatively high roof is from years of riding mountain bike on and off, which is a "hammer once in a while but don't ever really put out continuous, sustained power for any length of time."

Al Truscott

Your question about how to customize on OS program is a good one. When to tilt more towards FTP vs Vo2 max work, and by how much, depending on daily/weekly progress is what I see in your "Devil's Advocate" query. It might be (just guessing here) that the Power Clinic this winter may provide some data for the coaches to help the self-coached triathlete do just that. Here's hoping.

As to MTB not providing any real FTP work - I used MTBiking for years as part of my IM training. To get to the good stuff in the Cascades or Olympics, It's almost always a 3000+ vertical rise on a sustained 8-12% grade Forest Service road. Would usually take me 45-75 minutes at a steady-hard pace. Then either miles on sub-alpine trails, or a bombing downhill back to the car. Or both. I never really got better at Xterra races, but I sure improved on the road during that time.

charris

Al - now *that* is *mountain* biking!  Sigh.  And indeed, that was the kind of riding I did many moons ago when I lived in Calgary.  But I live in a River Valley city that is further from the mountains now, so the local climbs are short and sweet (and steep).

Of course nowadays if you head to the mountains to ride, you're probably taking a chairlift or gondola to the top and bombing down nice and fresh! 

twilkens

I hear your question and have to say for me I would rather do the Power Clinic for 6 weeks then the 4 weeks of 30/30. But I did fall strongly into the group that should benefit from the power clinic. I plan on doing the 5min 20min test periodically after I finish the power clinic to us it as a gauge to see when I need to add more vo2 work vs ftp work. This is my second season in the EN hause. I feel like I understand my own training needs much better this year and there is so much great information around the house you can kind of tweak your own training as needed. It would be intresting to know the 5min/20min ratio on everyone and see how it changes after the 4 weeks of 30/30's especially in the group that would have a ratio greater than 1.22.

Michele Cellai

Not sure when or how often you are mt biking now (winter). It could be that you had a peak VO2 that fell a bit when not riding outdoors and you were doing basic FTP work. So the VO2 work you just completed simply raised the roof back to a previous level. Rich has stated- it is easier to get to your previous peak than it is to surpass it.

Since doing long intervals was not part of your trainig previously, you may have quite bit of room to raise the ceiling and shrink that attic. Doing so would make you quite formidble on long course.

charris

@Todd: Great points - I'm still new to the EN methodology, so am trying to tread carefully before tweaking too much.  I too am trying to determine how valuable 20min/5 min testing would be in terms of it being actionable data - i.e. how should I modify my training based on the results.  Agreed that it would be interesting to see different results for different folks.

 

@Michele: Interesting comment about peaks.  I did very little mountain biking this year (as evidenced by me cracking a few ribs when I went for a late season ride this fall!) - in fact I've never been a very consistent rider - I just think my body has adapted that way over the years because I have done lots of hammer up/bomb down, but little truly sustained riding.  I definitely see my ceiling going up which is very encouraging - I guess there are worse problems I could have!

 

Thanks for the comments.

Coach Patrick

@Craig - Everyone who played in the clinic did a test first, and we discouraged those we thought would not benefit. More info on what that looks like coming out later this year, but yes, there will be more ways to customize EN plans moving forward. That's right, they can get even better....

P

cwhyte

The best ROI is highly individual so I don't think you can get a accurate answer on a forum. Just a couple of things you need to consider are:

1. Time available to train

2. Do you respond better to high intensity? You know this but there's a substantial jump, so to speak, when you go from consistent L4 work to consistent L5 work.

Generalizing a bit... If you can only be out there for 1hr then I think you're better served by doing structured L5 work. If you're out there for more like 1.5hrs then you're better served by doing structured L4 work.

Either way, you're going to experience the necessary adaptations required in "raising the left." You just need to make sure you shift your focus to "filling the right" by doing the appropriate race-specific training when the time is right.

Thanks, Chris