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Doing Z3 After VO2 Work...anyone else think it's crazy hard?

jmoss70jmoss70
in General Training Discussions

First off, I am all for turning myself inside out and making myself do things that are insanely hard.  I find as I am a couple of weeks into Block #2 of the OS that "accumulating" more Z3 time AFTER doing the VO2 Work is just nutty.  My mind can't make my legs do it.  I'm good for maybe 10-12 minutes of it and then I just pull the plug.  

Anyone else feel that way?  Maybe my rest interval after the VO2 Work isn't long enough?  Maybe I'm just a wuss?

 

 

Comments

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    Totally agree that it's hard. I think a good part of it is just building up that mental six pack. For me, the Z3 time is the hardest part of the workout. I can stick though repeated bouts of VO2 intervals, but the Z3 part feels almost like a FTP session to me after thrashing my legs that hard.
  • jhbinscjhbinsc

    I think if you do the VO2 portion correctly, you might not be able to do the Z3 time. And that's ok. It is optional and if your legs are asking for more recovery...TAKE IT and don't feel guilty. You just hammered a bunch of VO2 work!

  • Joseph LombardiJoseph Lombardi

    No disagreements with any of the comments...one workout that I have been tryingi lately...and actually find it easier than warming up/Z4/then Z3....is a variation of the 30/30 bike workout (and recommendations) warmup to Z3 pace then do a bunch of Z4 surges (backing off to Z3 to recover) that add up to the total recommended Z4 time ( ie. if z4 time is 12 min...then 2x6 or 4x3 etc...) recover in Z3 until you can surge again...

  • Paul HoughPaul Hough
    I'm not having a particularly tough time with the Z3 work, but I don't think I'm hammering the Z4 work as hard as some of you guys. Z4 is a ZONE. I get the benefit by working in the zone, not crushing the zone. I'm trying to accumulate more time in Z4, and I'm happy if I'm at the lower end. That's because this is threshold training not anaerobic training. The test is the time to knock it out of the ball park.

    @ Joseph - decades ago, I used to do the running equivalent of the Z3/Z4 approach by going 9 miles starting with a 6 min mile then a 5:20, then back to 6 and so on. The hard part wasn't picking it up for the faster mile, it was not slowing down below 6 flat pace right after. When I could drill that workout I knew I was ready for a good race.
  • gopetegogopetego
    Jim - that was exactly my thoughts last OS - my first OS. Banging out hard stuff for short periods seemed alot easier than holding z3 for longer periods. But I'm thinking each year this will gradually change w/more time on the bike. The endurance portion will keep improving. I've kind've noticed that already this year - although I've just begun the OS and haven't reached the V02 stuff yet. But i think the post-main set Z3 stuff really builds the durability aspect needed for the IM distance. Gonna try real hard this OS to do all of it on a consistent basis. But #1 is listen to ur body - never want to burn up too much risking downstream workouts.

  • jburbattjburbatt
    You can always do X amount of Z3 work first and follow it with your Z4 stuff if you don't want to slack off on the Z3 stuff. There are several people that go this route.
  • Cary BlancoCary Blanco
    agreed - that is definitely my experience.
  • Coach RichCoach Rich

    We're having you do Z3 to really rack up the TSS for each individual workout. Very soon, especially by the time you get outside, Z3 will be your default not-doing-intervals riding gear and you'll find it very difficult, if not impossible, to intentionally ride in Z1-2. You'll likely view it as a waste of time. The net is that you will rack up more TSS each workout than your competitors. That makes a difference over time.

  • kurshingkurshing
    @ Rich - it is so funny you say that, but THAT is exactly what happens (since that is the plan, why should I be surprised?)! When I get out in the late Winter/early Spring, it is always so funny how I drop all of my cycling friends immediately after leaving the parking lot for a ride. Then they all work together, get on my wheel, and the first 2-3 weeks of riding is me pulling them around town until they get back their legs. It is the most fun time of the year for me in riding with them.

  • Jeff UnruhJeff Unruh
    I find the Z3 biking stuff more a mental struggle than anything (as it can accumulate to ~50% of ride time). The Z3 stuff that kills me is running and not biking.

    Z3 runs are just 10" per mile over T pace. Trying to do 25' of that after 25' at M pace after a tough bike in the morning -- doesn't happen for me. Our runs seldom have more than a 1.5 mile repeat at T pace and then we do 3+ at just over T pace in these 50' runs -- need to discuss with P when he is out in WI in January.

    Perhaps it is pointing out my weakness - running at HMP...
  • EflachEflach

     Jeff...this is exactly my deal with the run.  Did you ever discuss this further?

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