Home General Training Discussions

Feedback needed: Short Course Training Plans

Team,

Patrick and I are turning our attention towards improving the Short Course training plans. We have many full-time SC athletes on the team, LOTS of people are doing SC races in route to their HIM and IM goal races, and I've been using the SC plan as a go-to bridge, mid-season speed pop tool for many of you, between your goal races. That is, if you have an HIM race and then a bigggg gap to your next race (IM or HIM), I often have you do the SC plan, with a few modifications, so we can get you some more of that make-me-faster-work.

So lots of you are/have/will be using the plans but we haven't seen much discussion about them? Please give us your feedback about the plans:

  • Structure of the plan, ie, the movement from one flavor of work to another.
  • The workouts themselves and opportunities to improve them.
  • Supporting documentation suggestions
  • Anything else.

Please limit your comments to the plan itself, not the training plan platform. That is, "it would great if I could import my Garmin files into the website." That's beyond the scope of this exercise.

Please give us your feedback by this Friday, January 14th. Thanks!

Comments


  • RnP:

    I’ve used the SC plans on-and-off for most of last year, as a bridge between HIM plans, as a means to an end for a specific event, and also as an add-on at the back of my season before taking a break/starting the OS.

    Overall, I would say that the plans are quite good. I raced several SC events on them last season with good results. I think the mix of FTP and VO2 is important to stress and develop different systems.

    In terms of constructive thoughts, I would suggest following:

    • There is a pretty big gap between the Int and Adv plans. The latter have a lot more run intensity, which when combined with the bike workouts as written, can be a little overwhelming. I’m a very experienced triathlete (>10 yrs in the sport … and also 45+ YO), and it was too much for me in the Adv plan, though the Int plan was fine. I have seen/heard similar comments from others, so perhaps that is something to look at.

    • I sometimes felt that the SC plans were really just OS plans with swimming thrown in on OS off-days with the workouts re-ordered. I don’t know if that’s what you all intended or whether the plans were in fact drawn up that way, but that was the impression. To that end, and esp for people that might be serial SC racers … does it make some sense to try to differentiate more clearly from the OS plans? I am thinking about a team member who goes from OS to a transition plan and then to SC … would they perceive any difference?

    • Along the same lines as the second point, I was left with the impression that just about every single time I threw my leg over the top tube or laced up my running shoes, I was going to go out and (have to) hammer to do the prescribed work. Esp in the VO2 section of the plan, it felt like the last 4 wks of the OS to me on several occasions, and I admit to cutting the work short or dropping the intensity to get it done. It might make sense to look at whether 3-4 bike interval sessions with 2-3 hard run sessions plus 2 swims is the right mix?

    • In terms of week structure, I would endorse the same changes you have made in the ’12 OS plans around splitting up or clarifying the brick guidance. I am betting that many/most SC folks are also time constrained and therefore pressed to do a 2hr workout on a regular basis on a Tues or Thurs. This might be something to consider taking up in the guidance/podcast that comes with a given week.

    • Last, and since SC race distances actually vary quite a bit, does it make sense to have info in the supporting docs/podcast/wiki on tailoring the terrain and length of the longer workouts in the plan (esp the run) to the distance/terrain of your race?

    Guys, the plans are very well done and written and these are marginal tweaks. Appreciate you all being pro-active about soliciting input.
  • Although I have not done the SC plans I examined the beginner one in some detail last srping.

    My first reaction was that it was for a more "advanced" athlete in that I think you need to be a pretty experienced self-coached athlete to use it. For example, the guidance for a sprint is essentially to modify the plan to suit the distance. I suspect someone using the whole plan just to train for a sprint might not be the person most capable of doing that. The solution here is to have distance-specific plans, or to offer more explicit direction on modifying the plans.

    I'd also say that some more off days would be beneficial. In the first 5 weeks of the beginner plan there is only 1 off day. Then there is one other off day in week 6, then one on the Friday before race day. My experience with the HIM plan was that there were more off days (4 or 5 in 12 weeks I think). I wonder if it is useful to have more recovery.

    Last, I think a long bike might be helpful for the SC athlete. My best olympic-distance race was last year in week #9 of the HIM plan. I think the endurance aspect may be a bit overlooked in the SC plans. An olympic is still a 2.5 hours or longer race for most people. With few off days and many 2-a-days, the SC plans do not appear to me to be particularly "low volume". So if they are not trying to be "low volume", I'd consider ramping up the bike a bit more on the weekend.

    I guess I'd also say -- and admittedly this is beyond the scope of the plans -- that some investment in documenting state-of-the-art for race execution would also useful for SC. The focus on execution is one of EN's core philosophic pillars, and I think this could be further developed for SC.
  • [deleting double post]

  • Looking back at my use of the plan mid-season as a bridge from IM CDA to IM AZ ... the six weeks I used it (including two Oly races) really kick started my second round of IM training for the year. The only thing I remember wanting was a little adivce about how to mix up the week if I was racing on the weekend. In other words, if I'm racing, which workouts do I delete, and how do I shuffle the days? I just figured that out on my own; someone with fewer years and races behind them might benefit from a "sample training week" which includes a race one is "training through"

  • For context, I have just used the intermediate SC as a bridge between HIMs, with an oly at the end of the 6 week SC.
    I really liked the plan, particularly the intensity of the runs on Tuesdays and Saturdays — my running speed has inproved markedly over this time.
    When I did the oly, I struggled to hit an IF of 0.9 — I ended up only averaging 0.88 — I wondered whether the SC bike sessions were long enough to be able to sit on an IF of 0.9 - 0.95 and still run 10km @ HMP — I was thinking perhaps that a few ABP rides might help?
  • All, thanks for the feedback, keep it coming! I can already see significant differences in how these plans are used in the Haus, by the team, and how they are used/presented as standalone training plans used by training plan customers.

  • @Rich - When are you hoping to roll out the new plans? I didn't use it last year, but will be for pretty much the entire summer this year. Looking forward to checking them out!
  • We want to do a sale on these to the world in early March. Ideally we can do the work to bring them in for the team at the same time.
  • RnP - used the advanced SC plan from April to September and had great success. A Couple of Points that may help as you further develop it:



    1. Recycling after the first 20 week peak - the first time I went back to week #14 and back to week #20. That was okay and I did really well again. Then, back to week #18 and back to #20. I was flat and did not feel strong. Then, I went back to week #17 and skipped the run intervals in week 18 and did fartleks instead and peaked really well in week #20. So, in retrospect - I should've inserted either a "run rest week" after the second recycle, or made two week #19s and not done week #18. Reminder - week 18 is the crazy 3 X 1200, 400, 200 @Z5.



    2. I used the outdoor option often on the bike on the weekends and the trainer during the week. Still a good plan there. Swim - good as well. The week where we had 8 X 400 was up there for toughest swim workout of the year. For an Olympic distance training plan, that was more than I've ever done. But, I did it and swam well so it worked fine.



    3. Taper - probably the best I have done. Did not go in injured or felt like I was still sore from training.



    4. Some "bio-feedback podcasts" during weeks 19 or 20 might go a long way. Specifically - "watch your resting HR, if it is higher than normal...watch your calories...watch your weight...weight goes up during taper week...don't try and sneak in more training...when to not race if you are injured...". Whereas IM and HIM athletes may peak a couple of times during a season, the SC athlete peaks and then maybe tries to keep it and peak several times during the course of the seson. We get to see a taper week lots more and tend to freak out and try to do dumb things. You know the drill.



    Hope this was helpful!



     

  • Building on what Joe said above, does it make sense to have something supplemental in the podcasts or a wiki for how to hold a peak for SC? I and others I know often do as Joe has described and stack SC races 3 in 2 wks or 4 in 3wks or similar working off of a single peak before end of season or a re-set.
  • Hey Rich,



    you put me on SC plan for this season, but I feel i go rather with a 12week HIM plan, because i found the weekly support material much richer then for the SC.



    Kai

  • After IMRG last year I used the Advanced SC plan for about 10 wks and had phenomenal results w a 1st AG then a 1st Master and finally a 3rd overall. I would not change a thing. But I believe the reason it worked so well is that I was coming off a tremendous IM base. The IM plan followed by the SC plan combined to create a classic Lydiard approach.
  • I did OS into an 11 week short course plan for an OLY and into the HIM plan last year.  I liked the SC plan, but found that following the OS and transitioning to a SC plan to be too repetitive.  Similar schedule and more importantly, I got kindof mentally burnt out from all the Z4 and Z5 stuff for 32 straight weeks.  That said, I had a good race result, but I think I would have benefitted from some more Z2/Z3 work leading into the SC plan.  Ex: ABP rides on the bike or some longer runs.   I am dabbling with that this year as I go from Jan OS into some OLY's.  

    Looking forward to seeing them!

  • I did exclusively SC plans last year. Overall thought they were effective, though repetitive after doing OS too. I think it would be helpful to have some guidance around taking some time after the OS before starting the SC plan, and not just doing a transition, but maybe doing a BBW or some other stimulus to change things up. Think the system gets burned out on 2 x 20 after 7-8 months.

    It would also help to write up some alternatives to the 2 x 20 type workout (ie. 30 minutes of over/unders, 45 minutes of ladders, others)

    I was focused on the Oly distance, and also think it would be helpful to spend some more time doing intervals up in the 30-40 minute range. It was a big shock to the system in the first Oly I did to see how much longer it felt like to be holding a number for an hour.

  • I also felt like the VO2 block in the plan ended too close to the goal race. I've observed in the OS and the SC plans that I've had a hard time getting the FTP intervals back after some focused VO2 work, and felt like last year, the VO2 stuff ended and my FTP was still depressed for a few weeks. Not sure what the right balance is, but maybe only 1 VO2 workout per week per sport?
  • RnP - after reading Mike's posts above, it reminded me of my first 41K TT done early in the training. I felt really strong, but at the 30' mark, I started to fade. I finished ok, but felt I needed some more LTHR work at longer distances than the SC plan had prescribed. So, I went to the Outdoor bike option and had a 1.5 to 2hr bike every weekend and integrated the scheduled workout and some ABP. That did the trick and I was able to hold my power.

    Since for a triathlete, we like the idea of "more is better", I then did the Tuesday's workout using the outdoor option and then on Saturday - I made it a 2.5 - 3hr bike. That compromised my Sunday run wko. So, for me - the 1.5-2hr bike was just right to get my endurance so I felt strong for a 41K Bike TT as well as the 40K+ bike legs.

    Also, I think a BBW should somehow precede or be thrown into an extended SC season to keep the endurance base. Not sure how to do this - maybe some guidance in the next SC update.
  • Hi folks,



    Thanks for the feedback! It's clear that we, as a team, are using these plans quite differently than our customers who are buying the plans as a .pdf as a standalone training solution. Internally we have been using these plans probably...75% of the time, as a gap, go-to, training solution between HIM and IM races.

    So we will:

    • Take many of your notes to edit the 20wk SC plans
    • Build out ~8wk "Get Faster" plans that members can use specifically for this gap purpose.
    • Build out some additional resources to compliment this gap solution.

    Our target for all of this is still early March. Thanks!

Sign In or Register to comment.