When to get a bike fit?
I rode all of 2009 on a Felt F4 with clip-on bars, and just bought my first tri bike in December. Apart from the test ride at the store, I haven't taken it outside due to darkness, ice, and salty roads. I've put it on the trainer a few times, but have generally been riding the F4 on the CT most of the time.
I got a very perfunctory fit when I bought the bike. We moved the aerobars a bit and adjusted the seat height, but nothing like a comphrensive fit. Should I get that done soon, or put a few miles on it first to see how I like doing longer rides as is? On the F4, I generally rode in the hoods except for short stretches in the aerobars. Races were in the aerobars. I hate the aerobars on the trainer--I'm much more tolerant of the position on the road than I am inside. Perhaps because I can't see the TV? I don't know). In all, I don't have much time in the aerobars on any bike, let alone the new one, so it's hard to say how I'd be able to hack a 6 hour IM bike leg.
Anyway, do you recommend I get it fit correctly from the start, or wait a while to see how I like things as is?
Comments
Ideally you want to get fit before the purchase. That being said, I would get a fit sooner rather than later. A lot of folks here have had great experiences with Todd at TTbikefit.com.
Does the store where you purchsed the bike offer professional fitting services? It's often included with a purchase.
Todd at ttbikefit.com is highly recomended by pretty much everyone that has used him and RnP will definitely recomend him. Otherwise, if you are going to use a local fitter, do some research first and definitely talk to people here to make sure it is someone good.
Vince
When I bought the bike, I spent about 15 minutes with the lead bike fitter in the store. I don't know what his qualifications are, but he said that apart from tweaking the seat height and moving the arm pads a bit, he wouldn't do a thing. I don't think he was being lazy. We had the bike up in the trainer, and he watched me pedal for a while. So I had more than just an untrained sales person setting the saddle height. Perhaps there is nothing more to do for me. That's why I thought that spending more time in the saddle (and especially on the road) for a month or so and then doing a fit would be more useful than trying to get everything set up before I spent much time on the bike.
I've heard good things about fits at Cycle Life USA in DC. They charge $225 for a 2 hour video fit, the same price as ttbikefit.com. As far as I can tell, everything at ttbikefit is based on a quick youtube clip. It seems far more worthwhile to me to do this in person where you can tweak things as you go rather than just an instruction to move the seat down 1.5 cm and put a 1 cm spacer on the stem based on a review of a 2-minute low res video clip. What am I missing?
where are you located?
I highly recommend Reul. Try to find a local Retul fitting system in your area.
it's on the expensive side BUT many agree that this is the most important investment you can make in relation to cycling.
If you are in the area of Austin, TX, there is a great guy named Zane that works at the Jack & Adams Triathlon shop.
IMO what you are paying for in a service like a bit fit is expertise. While the $250 hands-on may be a good fit...just cause it's hands-on doesn't mean it's good. I would rather pay $250 for a 2 min video file IF the fitter has the expertise to nail the fit and save me 118 mins of my life to do other things. In other words, when the Concorde flew from the East Coast to Europe it took half as long as a traditional flight but wasn't have the cost...it was more than double because your time has value too. With most services I feel you pay for time and expertise. Sometimes the expertise is far more important than the time.
I think Todd at TTbikefit.com has the credentials AND after you make the adjustments to your bike that he suggests, he has you send back video to recheck your position. Would it be better if Todd could see you live? Sure.
As for the Reutel system...it's a measuring device. It relies on the ability of the clinician to place the sensors correctly and utilize the data and THEIR individual fitting philosophy to set your bike up. If their philosophy/style sucks then the measuring device (Reutel) won't do you any good personally.
All of that said, your local fitters may be very well qualified and have the necessary expertise. I think Todd does and recommend him to anyone that will listen.
Vince
I gotta say that I think eyeballing it is not really a fitting. Whether you use Retul or FIST, there needs to be measurements taken.
www.slowtwitch.com/Bike_Fit/F_I_S_T...index.html
the team might be able to offer some more constructive suggestions if you post a video of yourself on the trainer (side on, not at an angle). If (eyeballing) it looks like you're pretty close to begin with, then maybe just ride and tweak along the way. If not, then go the fit route. Not the first time that would have happened in da Haus.
Mike
The other thing I forgot to mention is make sure you clearly communicate your goals to the person doing your fit. My experience has been that most shops try to put people in comfortable positions and dis-regard getting you aero. If this is what you want great, but if you want to go fast, the fitting process is a little different.
I perferred the local route....
Went into the fit session in winter 2007 and paid probably close to $250 by imo, the best fitter in the area. Set me up on the size cycle and found a position that worked at the time.....total time was close to 2.5 hrs after all the measurements and all that jazz.
Late 2008 went in again to look at the fit, how I'd changed etc. No charge. Again set me on the size cycle to my current fit and made stem adjustments on the fly and we swapped out different aero bar extensions to see if I wanted to change etc.
Going in again soon to go over the same process as last year on a new frame. Again no charge.....
I've had my bikes professionally fit twice, once a couple of years ago by a local expert and just recently by TTbikefit.com. Both had their advantages. A couple of years ago I did an in person visit and wanted to get comfortable in my first tri bike. I was able to ask a bunch of questions and in a couple of hours I walked away with a better bike fit. With Todd and the online process, it took a couple of rounds of video posts, but I learned a ton. In the end I walked away with a short video showing my old position, my new position, and a comparison to a couple of pro riders. First go around I wanted comfort, so we left all the spacers in and I wasn't that aero. I could ride in the aero position for an entire IM though. Now I wanted a much faster, aero position. Spacers are all gone, back is flat and hopefully this next IM, I'll be a whole lot faster.
I'd highly recommend the bike fit e-book available on the TTbikefit.com website regardless of what you end up doing. Great info and it helps so you can ask intelligent questions as you are being fit. Can't beat the price
tom
Agree that the experience and quality of the fitter is key. Thus recommendations from satisfied customers is paramount. Personally, my recent fit was by a physcical therapist who incorporated not only the Retul system of measurements, but also his own hands on physcial exam of all the relavant joints, range of motion, relative strengths, flexibility, etc. Add to that his 20 year history of working with professional cyclists, and I thought my 1.5 hours and $300 were very well spent, even for what seemed like only slight tweaks to saddle height and cleat position. He also provided specific exercises for increased flexibility in the one joint which was "off" (left hip) and gave me confidence that my riding position was the best it could be.
Regarding video analysis: when I look at the top riders (e.g., pros) coming back towards me in an IM, compared to those later on or even behind me (at turn arounds in multi-loop courses like IM AZ) I am startled by the differences in what I see when looking head-on. Seen from the side, many people appear to have a "flat back". But seen from the front, it is clear there are great differences in how high or low the key frontal surface area is. Remember, relative to the drag created by your head and shoulders and chest, the relative height and flatness of the back is almost insignificant.
We all know this intuitively, and others have pointed this out before in the forum. Get up to 20+ mph on a flat road in the TT position, and then raise and lower your head. (Or "open" vs. "close" your chest to the wind). The differences are impressive. I can make a big difference in my drag without changing my bike fit or arm position, just by concentrating on how low I can get my head. Then, check out a video of Mark Cavendish barreling head on towards the camera at 45 mph in the last 200 meters of a sprint finish, and compare the height of his head and shoulders above his handlebars to the others racers he's leaving in his wake. Might the fact that his head is lower than all the others be important?
Todd (TTBikefit) helped me with fitting my bike last season. He was obviously very experienced at fitting triathletes, but also very patient with my endless questions. I ended up a lot more comfortable AND about 5cm lower. Ultimately, that meant I felt better getting off the bike. I believe that a better bike fit was a real factor in my finishing my first IM. I just got a new frame which I think will fit a lot better, and I'll definitely get Todd to help again.
Keith,
That is a reasonable assumption and time on the bike to adapt is important but consider also that a skilled clinician not only asks how you feel but can observe tension/biomechanical issues that you may not be aware of. Some of that skill is based upon knowing typical angles (ie: hip angle, knee angle at the bottom of the pedal stroke, etc) but also seeing how much ease or lack of ease is noted in your pedaling effort, holding your head in a reasonable position to see, etc. Again, that is where the expertise comes in.
What you do not want is to adapt to a bike and cause injury OR have a fitting later and have injury because it moves you too far from your functional groove that you've created by being in a bad position for so long. I had a guy develop hammy issues after a fitting...even though it's a better position because he is so used to a forward seat position.
Vince
Eric Sorensen from Cycle Life will do a less intensive fit session for about $100. I did it last year - he spent over an hour with me and took full measurements. He's FIST certified.
Anyone can run on a treadmill for 15 minutes and have someone stare at your backside, or see you as you're warming up on the bike to see how flexible/inflexible you are, etc.
Now, I'm not faulting them for it, but it does play into the comfort a LOT.
Scott,
You hit on a great point. I fully agree. As you fatigue all of the stabilizers start to fail and compensation sets in. Of course if you are in a bad bike position from the start...the stabilizers fatigue quicker...see where I'm going with this..
I have my athletes come see me after the miles/fatigue have kicked in either at Starbucks or the office and we hit the road together and look at function while fatigued. Sometimes things show up that weren't evident but usually we can see the writing on the wall biomechanically without having to have them work that hard.
Vince
I had a fit when I purchased mine but I was thinking that I would pay to have a Retul fit when I lost all my weight? I haven't ridden the bike on the road at all yet so would like to get this in early April before I do NOL 70.3. What do ya'll think? Gear West does the Retul I thiink in Long Lake, MN
FYI, our intention with going with Todd was:
Personally, I assume every bike fitter, LBS or bike mechanic doesn't know shit until proven otherwise...that's been my experience anyway.
I agree with Coach Dick about lbs, mechanics, and fitters. "Experts".
If you can get to Charlottesville, Jay diSherry is the real deal at the U Va. Worth the trip, imo. PM me and I'll find his contact info for you.
WERD! I worked with Todd at TTBikefit and had a great experience. But Jay is another seriously valuable resource if he's close by.
For those of you inclined to do your own video fit analysis, I found the following Free angle measuring tool. http://www.markus-bader.de/MB-Ruler/
Anything you can view on your computer screen can be measured with this. So run your video to the point you want, capture the image and measure your hip angle, back angle, seat angle, foot angle …….. and so on.
Simple tip – put a high contrast color dot say ½” on your key bone connection points, hip, knee and ankle. These points will be your measuring points in the video analysis. This way you don’t have to guess where are those point to measure from.
Good Discussion!
Given that you have a reputable bike fitter, let's talk frequency!
In my opinion, you should get a bike fit as soon as you purchase the bike. Others have already talked about bike and physical reasons for getting the bike fit as soon as possible. I concur.
I also think that you should get a bike fit every 12 to 18 months. As we train, our bodies change and hopefully for the better. Therefore, it would make sense that adjustments to our bike fit are necessary to maximize our potential on the bike.
Just my 2 cents!
I know this is said a lot in EN, but I have to repeat it once again. I saw significant gains in my bike speed, with the same power, once I learned how to get my head down. All it took was looking at some pictures of coach Rich, videos on TTbikefit.com, and then some practice on the trainer while video taping myself from both the front and side.
Litterally the most free speed I ever got, as I didn't spend a penny, just a little time learning and training my body want to do.
My cost to get what they call a "2d" analysis at UVA which included bike fit and gait analysis was $300. Both changes made were about greater efficiency going long.
My drop was raised and elbow pads brought in a bit. Less aggressive, but actually more powerful and comfortable. Not as tt looking perhaps, but also not a beach cruiser set up. It really is about frontal area and head position and not just about an aggressive drop that can, if not fitted well, be really inefficient What I gave back in drop I hope to gain in a more efficient pedal stroke and 4 hours into the ride comfort.
Run look was the same theory. By changing the placement of my footfall I'm more efficient, expending less energy, ergo (in theory) I go further on less gas.
Matt,
I know you've commented on this before, but I'd like you know a little more about your practice habits. I've got a more aero position recently and notice a huge difference. However, when I tuck my head down, I lose a lot of visability. When I'm really tucked in and have my head down, I can't see more than 10-20 feet in front of my bike, so I only do this on very familiar roads with wide shoulders and painted lines I can follow. 'll look up every 15-20 seconds.
How far down the road can you see? Are there tricks to getting better?
tom
I just got used to not being able to see, kind of like learning to swim with you head under water and only sighting. For all of IMWI i couldn't see more then 15 feet down the road unless I was sitting up to climb a hill. It's also much easier when you get away from the crowd and have a bit of space inbetween riders
I practiced by doing some trainer workouts with a video camera. I figure out where my chin (about 1-2 inches above my aero bottle lid) was and what I was looking at if I looked straight (the front of my tire/PT display on the front my aero bars). This gave me some cues so I knew where my head should be.
I find the postion much easier to hold and more comfortable, but the part I had to practice was resisting the urge to always life my head up to see. It was very hard to ride like this out on the roads, but when I could go straight for a while I did what I could. The first few times I felt like I was trying to look through my eyelids and helmet, but I got used to it. Like you said I practiced on familer roads with little traffic.
I also had to switch helmets and get rid my my glasses and use a visor instead as even rimless glassess didn't work so well.