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If you are using pacing, do you also use HR when running on a TM

Brenda RossBrenda Ross
in General Training Discussions

This is posted to try to settle a discussion between me and my hubby.  It is my understanding that if you use Pace you do not use HR?

Reason I ask is that when my husband is on the TM he says that he trys to marry up his pace and HR and in order to complete Z5 work he needs to raise the mill up to 5-6%.

He says that if he keeps it at 2% incline and runs at the Z5 paces prescribed his HR only goes into Z3 HR. 

My gut tells me that this could lead to an injury. Am I wrong?

I just use pace, but my PE seems to feel right when I am at a 2% incline when on the TM.

Insight please. Thanks everyone.

Comments

  • tuckermtuckerm
    So in essence he is upping his pace to match his HR? Yeah, Jack Daniels would tell him no. He shall see little to no gains from running faster and only increases his chances of getting injured.
  • John WithrowJohn Withrow
    B- Doubtful you "settle" the discussion here, but will likely get many good comments and thoughts. I use Pace and do NOT use HR ever (TM or outside). BUT, I have found the treadmill to be very different to running outside. I don't know if it's because the calibration of the TM might be off, or if it's just easier to let the TM flip my legs back as I simply try to stay in one spot as the belt passes underneath, but either way, I find it a bit easier on the TM (but way more boring). Just like riding indoors and outside with different FTP numbers, you likely have different indoor and outdoor VDOT numbers. If you want to try and "settle" your little discussion, have him do a 5k test on the TM and compare that VDOT to what he achieved outside, I'll bet the TM one is higher. I usually run with the TM at 1.0 or 1.5%. If he's running at a Z5 pace at a 5-6% incline and is hitting all of his intervals for the whole run workout than he is an absolute machine (regardless of calibration), but I'm sure you already know he is a machine! I have never heard of people having injuries from running on an incline on a TM, I suspect this is actually a very very good workout, but hopefully some of the medical type peeps will opine on that. On a side note, I have a friend that was training for an Ultra and did 3 continuous hours on the TM at a 7% incline wearing a 20 lb backpack with no injury... I've found a higher incline is harder on the muscles and lungs but easier on the joints.
  • kkieferkkiefer
    I might be wrong here, but VO2 max work is about training in anaerobic zone, if HR stays in Z3 I would agree with John do a test on the TM, 1% incline should compensate the pushing effect, training on the TM with 4-5% would rather running uphill which requires and trains a different form.

    SWAG .... something must be wrong here, either the TM is wrong or the tests or the intervals are too short image.
    My +1 experience is that HR on TM(1%) is higher because of missing vent at the same pace(using my garmin with a footpod) outside now.

    Have fun settling this one
  • Al TruscottAl Truscott

     You can't assume pace from an outdoor test will apply on the treadmill. When I've used the treadmill for interval work, I have actually tested on and used the same treadmill. It's kinda cheesy, as you know the pace you are using during the test, but being able to hold that pace for 20 min +- confirms its use for the intervals. I observe my HR, but don't use it to drive my training efforts. As to incline, when I've done hard work at 5 + %, I have tended to hurt myself. But it may be a question of not being used to it.

  • Brenda RossBrenda Ross
    Tucker - no. He is upping the incline, keeping the same pace, so that his HR gets into Z5
  • tuckermtuckerm
    Agreed he isn't upping the TM pace, but he is required to use more effort, essentially upping his pace. There is a conversion chart somewhere for it. Basically fast people who can outrun the TM, they do exist, just up the incline to simulate a faster pace. Think about it, when running at a 9' pace and you hit a long hill, what do you need to do to run that same pace? You need to work harder. If you put that same effort out on a flat surface what you be doing? Going faster. So he's running faster than he should be.
    Unless of course as others have said he has a different TM Vdot. So maybe he should that on that to see. Otherwise he's running too fast.
  • Coach PatrickCoach Patrick
    HR will always be lower on a TM vs outside. There is less stimuli: terrain, conditions, gear, and the road is moving, not you moving it. Chasing a specific high end HR like that isn't required...like extra credit stuff. Tell him to calc the pace he wants, to use some incline but not to worry about the HR so much.
  • kkieferkkiefer
    Coach P, thanks for sharing this insight, and to correct my SWAG (i guess I am a special snowflake where cooling helps more than others)
  • Trent ProughTrent Prough
    @Brenda-- Tell your hubby if he can go Z5 at 5% to 6% on the TM then he is sandbagging his outside Vdot big time. I don't think I could hold MP at 5% on all intervals. Unless of course you guys live on the side of a mountain and his outside Vdot test was a run up it!!
  • Brenda RossBrenda Ross

    I don't know Trent. I did the test with him and we were both keeled over in pain at the end.

     

    Thanks Coach P - I sent him what you said via email. He is working night this week, so we will not see each other until Sat morning.

     

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