5' vs 20' Power Ratios

Kevin Walter

Way back somewhere I think there was a discussion about what the "standard" ratio of 5' to 20' power was and what the implications might be for an athlete in terms of their relative VO2Max vs Lactate Threshold strengths/weaknesses. Anyone remember that?

I am thinking about switching my FTP test from the 2x20 protocol to the 1x5 and 1x20 Coggan protocol this week.

mgraffeo

Kevin, the old skool instructions from Rich re: that test and the results are here

http://members.endurancenation.us/Training/TrainingForums/tabid/101/aft/440/Default.aspx

Note to newer folks, the 'power hack' referenced in the thread has been incorporated into the plans, and no longer exists as an add-on.

Kevin Walter

Thanks Mike! That's what I was looking for.

Peter Greagg

Hi Kevin
I use the 5 min and 20 min tests in the OS. My Pnorm 5 min divided by Pnorm 20 min is around 1.1 — meaning I have a very small attic.
What I have found is that if I use 120% of FTP as my VO2 max power in the OS, I dig myself into a deep hole very quickly. My FTP appeared to fall by 15 watts during the block and I got the symptoms of overtraining and had to rest.
So I use the Pnorm 5 mins as my VO2 max power. I find that much easier to do.
Just my 2 cents worth.

kkiefer

@Kevin, thanks for asking this question ... I am curious, what will you do with the result you get ... maybe a dumb question but i try to learn here...

GMAN 19030

Is this the number that Power Agent computes for us when entering FTP, Power Zones, etc.?

Kevin Walter

@Kai: The theory is that there is a "general" balance in terms of the ratio between you CP5 and CP20 of say 1.2. If your individual ratio is lower than this then your VO2 is more limiting while if the ratio is higher then your lactate threshold is more limiting.

kkiefer

Kevin, thanks, makes sense. Here is why I ask.

I missed the first 2.5 weeks of the VO2 block over xmas new year, my FTP still grew by 3-4% with in the last 6weeks, but i am sure that I can hold only 110% or 115% of FTP, so I wonder if there is guidance to maybe balance the 3rd block more towards V02 work instead of FTP.
What will you do when you results are showing you need to do more V02?

Peter Greagg

Hi Kai — I am no WSM, but the answers I have received from them to similar questions is that anywhere from 110% to 120% of FTP will give you a good VO2 max workout.
So if your attic is small (VO2 max is close to FTP), then you might need to use power closer to 110% than 120% of FTP in the second block.
I am not sure that you should adjust the third block without one of the coaches giving you advice.

kkiefer

Peter, thanks, I was traveling the whole V02 block, hence I did the most of V02 stuff on fitness bikes by HR. But I know that I can hold 120% for 1' or 2' but longer than 3'.

You are right, I will continue with the Block 3 as is for now, and see how things develop. Test At the end of the V02 vs FTP.
My HIM Plan starts in in May, so I have 6-8 week gap, where I can address this point with the coaches .

Kevin Walter

@Kai: I am just finishing week #14 of the Nov OS (the end of the VO2 block). My plan was to hack the last 6-weeks based on my Coggan test. If my CP5 was weak then tilt toward more VO2 and if it was CP20 then tilt toward more LT work. As it turns out, I am "in balance." My CP5 and CP20 are basically right in line with one another. With that new found bit of knowledge (and my first 70.3 on tap for April 1st), I am going to start doing 1 VO2 max w/o and 1 LT w/o during the week on the bike and then start to increase my weekend ride a bit (hopefully outside when able) using mostly Zone 3 effort with some LT intervals tossed in.

kkiefer

Kevin, thanks for the insight. Adding this, and the answer in a other thread, it is clear that I will use my OS Block3 VO2 sessions to slowly increase them towards 2 1/2-3' until I adapted and I can hold the 120% for 5min.

Sometimes things are simple