How much should I bump my FTP? Looking for SWAG help....
Team,
This year I started my Outseason after two months of almost complete downtime ... as in no cycling to speak of for over 8 weeks ... followed by a bit of a ramp-up in preparation of an Intermediate OS. For a data point, I ended the year with an FTP of 265W.
My FTP test to start the OS came in at 231W. I was happy that it wasn't as low as I expected it to be, but I knew I had some lost ground to make up. I now know that I have made up some of it, but I don't have an FTP test scheduled for two more weeks. In lieu of throwing in a full test, I think I can safely 'bump' my FTP up a bit based on the data I do have, and not sacrifice the quality of my follow-on runs and bikes. The question is: "How much?"
I started noticing that my AVG HR was staying pretty low, especially on some of the Z3 ‘extra’ work that I was able to fit in per the plan. In the data below, you will notice a couple of things (NOTE – I can’t ride at the same time every day so my HR is slightly variable based on Time-Of-Day for the ride):
- I haven’t hit a Z4 HR since the beginning of Week 2
- Some of my Z3 work by watts, has been Z1 by HR
- For the last 2+ weeks, my Z4 work has barely been Z2 by HR
In my last 10 minute interval on Sunday, I decided to bump up my work to see what I could do to my HR. For the last 5 minutes I held 256W with 155bpm (low Z4), and the last 1 minute was 261W with 159 bpm (high Z4).
Not that I want to “Over-Achieve my Cycling Intervals”, but I do think I ought to bump my zones up (bump my FTP) so that I maximize the value of the work for the next two weeks, until I have another scheduled test.
So Team, I ask you --- how much, if any, should I ‘bump my FTP’? 10W to 241, 20W to 251, ……..
All my ride data for the OS is below. And is color-coded to help show trends.
Thanks,
Joe
PS - As pretty much all of my riding has been per the plan, I can’t use my Power Distribution chart b/c all it shows are three distinct peaks: warmup watts (~150), Z3 watts (~195), and Z4 work (~230).
Here are all of my OS workouts so far:
Current Data |
|||||||
FTP |
231 |
||||||
LTHR |
161 |
||||||
Z1 |
<137</span> |
||||||
Z2 |
138 - 146 |
||||||
Z3 |
147 - 154 |
||||||
Z4 |
155 - 160 |
||||||
Z5 |
161+ |
||||||
Intermediate |
OS Bike Workouts |
||||||
Date |
Interval |
NormPwr |
Avg HR |
||||
Week 1 |
2-Jan |
20 |
227 |
159 |
|||
20 |
238 |
165 |
|||||
5-Jan |
6 |
223 |
151 |
||||
6 |
222 |
153 |
|||||
x20 |
193 |
145 |
|||||
8-Jan |
<td valign="bottom" widt|||||||
0
Comments
I'm with Tucker on this one, assuming you're on schedule in the Jan OS, we'll be retesting in 2 weeks and you can hammer out a big bump then. But, if you want to swag now, and train for a couple of weeks, I'd just pick an area where you think the exertion is appropriate and try the 10- 15' intervals with it. It's a long year, I don['t think you'll be sabotaging yourself. Fiddle with it through a few workouts and I bet you can find the sweet spot pretty quick. Record the data and the notes on how you feel. Of course, by then, we'll be testing again.
BTW, I got nothing on the HR correlations. Don't use it.
good luck
You guys have given me something to think about for my drive to work...more to follow. And yes, John, I haven't nailed the 231 number. I was going to upgrade from the LYC to a Joule, but I have been waiting for the newer, less expensive one (which was supposed to be out last Fall).
@William--- How does CP work in GC? Is it cumulative? Can you look at CP over various time periods? I been loggin into GC but havent learned how to read the data yet. I looked at my CP=219 and using your formula of +3-5w gives me 222-224FTP.... My recent test was 224.
Even if current levels end up being 90% of new levels after test, that's not a 'wasted' two weeks, as there are still lots of go-faster adaptations that happen from 85% and upwards.
having an accurate training FTP is not terribly important (sacriledge, I know!). Unless you think it's off by 20+ watts, I'd just go with it for now.
And come on joe, the 2x20' won't bite you.
Why so much analysis of HR when you have watts? Ride to the watts you gots. HR is evidenciary, a symptom, something to look at when figuring out your recovery or lack thereof, or why you're feeling weak as a kitten. Not something to train from if you are training with power.
Mike is right. Test if you want to but if you're accurate to within 10 watts for ft, you're close enough. When in doubt, round down. Better to miss numbers low than miss them high and dig your hole which can then send your HR all over the place.
Your big ft bump will come when/if you're fully rested later.
@Mike, I agree.
Thanks for helping me find the motivation to just HTFU and Get 'Er Dun!
Nice work Joe! Share the joy soon...........
@ Joe - I'm in a similar situation. But I have only 2 weeks left in the OS so I'm thinking I'll stay where I am and just "over achieve" for the remaining workouts and then test. Truth is, I could call my FTP right now without doing anything or looking at anything. From miles and miles of my nose stapled to the dial I know where I stand. My HR is lower like yours. I know I am fitter than what I have set as my current FTP.
For your situation, I think you have to test.
Very curious to see results! Glad you decided to test!
Drumroll please......
FTP 247. A bump of 16W.
Like I said, I know I left a few watts in my legs and beats in my heart since I should not have been able to push the final minute like I did. I was concerned (overly so? perhaps) that I would blow up and have to call it part of the way through. So, my gameplan was to start slightly above my current FTP of 231, build every 5 minutes or so for the 1st 20' while seeing how I felt, take it real easy on 2' recovery, and then start slightly below where I left off and again try and build into the finish.
I did feel like hurling at the end, but I think that was a function of pushing 327W for the final minute of the test. Like I said, I left some power in my legs.
A lesson learned for me and testing --- don't do it at the end of the day. This was my first test in the late afternoon and I could tell that I had already spent a full day. Also, I am considering testing without reference to the PM .... that is a thread for another day, though.
Thanks again for the "motivation" to test. Had I been forced to guesstimate my FTP, I would have said 245-250ish. But now I earned it and I am happy with today's work. I eagerly anticipate my upcoming test on the 20th.
Short version of the numbers are as follows:
The minute-by-minute details are below, but on rolling 5' sets within the interval, and as the Interval continued, I built consistently.
Maybe a discussion for it's own thread, but I did a similar thing on my last test where I was pushing much harder the last minute. I had an idea after the test that I might try next time if I can mentally will myself to actually do it. If I'm pushing watts that are materially higher in the last minute than they were in say the first 5 minute segment of the whole test then I may just keep going for another whole minute or two, or however long I can keep up that super high effort. Then when I select a 42 minute range in WKO+ it'll simple be the last 42 minutes of the test. I can't imagine there would be a problem if say it was broken down as 18-2-22. This may allow me to squeeze out those extra couple of watts because you're replacing a couple 265W minutes from the beginning (we'll now just pretend they were warmup minutes) with a coupe of 300+W minutes at the end in your average NP. Clearly if you were fading at the end and just holding on for dear life you would just end the 2nd go right at 20 minutes.
I thought the 42' was "magical" in the sense that it is the house standard for estimating 1hr FTP (presuming you're using the 2x20 method and not one of the alternatives like 95% of 20', etc). This standard is supposedly used to write all of the workouts. If you added 2 extra minutes then your calculated FTP would be slightly overstated becase your "Rest Time" would go from 4.76% of the 42' data set vs a 4.55% of a different 44' total data set. It would be different for every test then, say one time you started too hard just stopped at exactly 42', versus another time you started more conservatively and did 44' total or maybe 44:30 another time... I think if you make it your "best" 42' it keeps it a little more standardized.
EDIT: I actually did the math on a couple of examples to compare the 42 vs 44 min. So, please ignore everything I said above... 1W is totally negligible so who cares (unless it's the 1 Watt that gets me to a 3-handle). I'll still do 42' for standardization but it really doesn't make a difference.
2 simple comparisons:
1a) [42min] 20-2-20 300W-160W-300W = FTP of 293.3 Normal flat paced test
1b) [44min] 20-2-22 300W-160W-300W = FTP of 293.6 Flat paced test with 2 extra mins
2a) [42min] 18-2-22 292W-160W-320W = FTP of 300.4 Increasing power test taking final 42 mins
2b) [44min] 20-2-22 290W-160W-320W = FTP of 299.1 Increasing power test taking the full 44 mins
Nice bump. I'm betting you see even more next test!
Sir,
The Marines on the team would just embrace the suck and knock out the test. But if Col McFastMover wants to spend 60' posting to the forum and getting bullied by others to just do the damn test...I suppose that's a method also.
PS: What's your call sign?
Romeo 5 OUT!
Nice work. One thing I will say in favor of the Test is that now you KNOW you can hold that kind of wattage for 2 X 20'. So when next the next WKO rolls around and you're thinking "sun-uv-a, my FTP is so much higher, how am I gonna do it?"...you can look back to this test and KNOW that you can do it. So just DO IT!
And a nice little bonus with the test is that's one hell of a WKO of TSS to bank for later.
@Rich - Like I said, my initial intent was to use Thinking and Logic as a more 'elegant' solution as opposed to The Brute Force Method. Getting bullied by The Team was just an added bonus.
This kind of reminds me of the joke about securing a building:
How to Tell the Difference Between the Branches of the US Armed Forces!
My callsign is Corky. There is not a good story there....it was decided that night that I resembled the kid from "Life Goes On" .... so that is what they came up with.
PS - Love working with Marines on the ground. Much less hemming and hawwing as compared to Big Army. "SEND IT!"