'Hip Drive' in run mechanics

Dave Tallo

I don't get it, but apparently I should be doing it. 

Can anyone explain to me what 'hip drive' should feel like / look like in good running?    Examples of something in particular I should be paying attention to?  A drill to help create Hip Drive Awareness?  

 

Joseph Lombardi

Think Firing Buttocks, Squat Jumps, Box Jump...its hip angle,lean, footstrike slightly behind center line,hip roll...and push off leg extension....okay..that may not be a helpful description/prescription but are the mental cues I use when trying to engage my core effectively in running.....I look forward to others input....also Explosive Running help develop this...so the VO2 speedwork, Hill repeats, etc.

Joseph Lombardi

 Another "swing thought" (using golf analogy)...is sand running...so you foot puses down into the ground and behind...this one may not be completely accurate...but imagine that if you only are using your legs...you will not be able to run well in sand...you have to dig down find firm footing and drive off...imagine your foot going throught hte plane of the ground and pushing back and off.

mgraffeo

Dave, from the work I've been doing since December, I think the best way to describe it is the sensation that your glutes and hamstrings are activated immediately before your foot hits the ground, so that a) you land on a stable platform (instead of having your knee/hip deform to absorb shock) and b) your glute is driving your knee backwards from this stable platform.

A good biomechanicist will tell you that the glutes don't actually create any force in the 'extension' part of the hip drive, which is technically true. However, because it's happening so fast, I don't know of any mental cue to get proper glute engagement that doesn't rely on thinking about it as if it is happening from just before foot fall through the push-off in the rear.

It's also very difficult to properly feel/see hip drive if you have inadequate core strength in order to both run tall (posturally) and stabilize the pelvis on landing.

A few good drills include skipping, the 'stomp' drill, the TRX sprinter's start, and the 'scraping mud' drill.

new2703

Think of like this. When your foot hits the ground your body weight (center of gravity is slightly behind your foot). As your body weight is transferring over your foot engage (squeeze) your gluteal muscles and you'll feel your pelvis drive forward. Not engaging the gluteal muscles often means we are using the hamstrings as a main hip extensor which can lead to over use injuries, chronic hamstring problems and TFL/IT band issues. The difficulty here is that you need to make sure you have adequate hip extension range of motion to be able to properly engage the gluteal muscles.

robin sarner

 The Chi running folks describe this.

Dave Tallo

thanks, guys. most helpful.

mgraffeo

Dave,

one other thought. I've never seen you run, and have almost nothing to base this on but your profile pic. However, in that pic, there's a pretty pronounced bend forward at the waist. I find it difficult if not impossible to initiate a strong hip drive from that position (which is how I've always run, until recent work). In fact, I expect that that position has a pretty high correlation with a more quad-dominant motor pattern, which tends to result in under-developed glutes and a lack of hip extension or drive. Watching the side-view of Crowie on the Kona coverage this year really emphasized to me how upright it looks to have good form. By working on run mechanics (I took the month of December off from running to re-build some motor patterns and functional strength), I've managed to move in that direction, and only now do I feel any of that real extension/drive from the hips.

Of course, I may be way off (since I'm basing all of this on one pic), so YMMV!

Brian Quarton [OLD]

I like the "Butt Squeeze" form cue



In the instant before your foot makes contact with the ground, contract the muscles in the hip and buttock on that side of your body and keep them engaged throughout the ground contact phase of the stride (not very long). Think bang, squeeze, then most importantly relax and float. This proprioceptive cue will enable you to maintain greater stability in the hips, pelvis, lower spine and perhaps even the knees as you run. It will also minimize wasteful (asymmetrical) long axis rotations. You've heard of front quadrant swimming? Think rear quadrant running.

  

More at http://www.active.com/running/Articles/Sensory_cues.htm

gopetego

Yeah thats a good article Brian. Many of those points are directly from the Chi Running book/video - which helped me alot a few years back in making me stay aware of my form throughout the run. Now I immediately notice it when my form starts to fail - usually I bend forward too much at the waist. The "navel to spine" thought really helps keep me upright, keeps me from over-striding, which keeps my cadence high, allowing my legs to get out in front of me better, which keeps me lighter on my feet - which of course allows the hip to get involved much easier.

mgraffeo

Very interesting article from active, thanks! The references to Chi here mystify me. The biggest bad habit I learned from Chi is where they go out of their way to tell you NOT to use your glutes. IMHO, it's terrible advice, and set my running back several years before I learned that.

tuckerm

I've kind of followed this thread and saw this article recently tweeted.

marcocardinale.blogspot.com/2008/05...iring.html

Not sure where it falls in this, but it looks like the science says the glutes are always firing.  This might upset some people in another thread.  All of whome were told their "glutes were not firing"!

mgraffeo

Good article, Tucker. The statement "glutes not firing" may be inaccurate, but the spirit of what is being said is directly applicable here. Runners with weak glutes (relative to hip flexors and quads) will tend to run inefficiently. Strengthening hamstrings and glutes should improve the 'hip drive' Dave is referring to.

Coach Patrick

x2 what mike said re body position for dave. my hips are rotated forward, like pouring a bowl away from you...bellybutton first...so I am tall and can drive that leg back.

Dave Tallo

Thanks a lot, guys. Most form cues are pretty well developed, but until this thread, I really wasn't activating my glutes in the stride in any deliberate way. For 25 years, it turns out. It was almost an immediate "oh - I get it," and I've been trying to habituate this at varied paces for the last few weeks. As well, to Mike's observation, it has definitely helped highlight the forward lean, which I thought I had completely licked last year. So, I've also been making super slo-mo vids from treadmill running to highlight the how, where and why of bending at the hips.

This has definitely been something to keep my mind occupied over the miles! Thanks again.