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R& P + WSMs Seeking Honest Feedback - Volume IM Adv

Background (again).  Starting IMAdv plan Week 6.  Completed all 20 of the OS and that cranked up my FTP from post-injury 240s to 273 and quickly regained a 49-ish Vdot.  5th IM coming up.  Been doing this a while.  I'm Mr. Consistent - I don't miss for anything and I don't eff around when I am doing a workout.  

At what point does the volume on SATURDAY specifically become "have to" vs. "nice to have"?  The weather has gone to shit here again and it seems we'll be in a trainer in the basement pattern for a while.  Good news is last week I racked up a solid 9 hours outside on the bike.  If the ONLY corner I cut is just doing the MS on Saturdays for say the next 3-4 weeks will I be okay?  Also, in 3 weeks I will be doing an epic bike week in St. George for 5 days so the next 3-4 weeks won't be a total volume puss out.  

Comments

  • While I am not one you asked to comment, don't worry about anything until you are 12 weeks out.
  • Jim, you're doing IMCDA right? I say you are in fine shape as week is roughly 15 weeks out. Epic bike week should pay back you"pussing" out for now! 

  • What Tucker said. You don't need to be in the IM headspace until 12wks out. For IMWI last year I started getting very serious 16wks out, pretty much right after/during Tour of California. In retrospect I should have waited until the middle of June, if not later.

    In the end, when I'm doing season plans for the team, I put very, very, very few people into their IM plans more than 12wks out. And none who've done a full OS. 

  • Posted By Rich Strauss on 13 Mar 2012 10:04 PM

    What Tucker said. You don't need to be in the IM headspace until 12wks out. For IMWI last year I started getting very serious 16wks out, pretty much right after/during Tour of California. In retrospect I should have waited until the middle of June, if not later.

    In the end, when I'm doing season plans for the team, I put very, very, very few people into their IM plans more than 12wks out. And none who've done a full OS. 

     

     

    At least Jim isn't doing 100 mile rides as part of his IMAZ training 36 weeks before the race like some guy I was just reading about on Beginner Triathlete.

  • Posted By Bob McCallum on 14 Mar 2012 07:15 AM
    Posted By Rich Strauss on 13 Mar 2012 10:04 PM

    What Tucker said. You don't need to be in the IM headspace until 12wks out. For IMWI last year I started getting very serious 16wks out, pretty much right after/during Tour of California. In retrospect I should have waited until the middle of June, if not later.

    In the end, when I'm doing season plans for the team, I put very, very, very few people into their IM plans more than 12wks out. And none who've done a full OS. 

      At least Jim isn't doing 100 mile rides as part of his IMAZ training 36 weeks before the race like some guy I was just reading about on Beginner Triathlete.

    A "coach" friend of mine is coaching another friend of mine for IMFL2012; and over Presidents day Weekend, she had two 100-milers on her schedule already! I just shook my head and laughed. She didn't understand the concept of burnout for her first IM...in 10 months.



     

  • You're way ahead of me in experience...but count me among those who experienced burnout [or something related to it] by starting the volume too early. My first IM, I bought the whole "Going Long" thing, and was doing 5 hour trainer rides in Jan for IM WI. I had a great summer overall, but I knew that I had peaked already in July. I got through the IM alreight because I'm disciplined and bullheaded, but I also knew it wasn't ideal. I started really keeping track and I am totally on board with the "not more than ~3 months" thing now.
  • Well shiz.  What now?  I'm on Week 6.  Back off on the volume, just do MS?  Or, dick around for a couple of weeks and then get serious?

  • Posted By Jim Moss on 13 Mar 2012 06:00 PM

    ...If the ONLY corner I cut is just doing the MS on Saturdays for say the next 3-4 weeks will I be okay?  Also, in 3 weeks I will be doing an epic bike week in St. George for 5 days so the next 3-4 weeks won't be a total volume puss out.  



    This should work just fine for getting you to the dance on time. I did IM CDA 9 years running and never did any volume work until after the 1st of April - the weather would never cooperate here in the Pac NW.

  • I prefer to think of "volume" as occurring in primarily 2-3 workouts per week, as these are the only ones we really flex much as we move through the season:

    • Long run
    • Long bike
    • Second long bike.

    Long run:

    • If you keep the length of this to about 1:20-30 you can accommodate a good bit of get-faster running in there. It's also mentally not very stressful, becomes just another morning run after a while, etc. But once you start going north of 1:30 it begins to take on more and more of the characteristics of an IM-flavor, legit long run: intensity comes down, takes a bigger and bigger toll on your body/joints, much harder, mentally, than a 1:20-30hr run. For me, going north of 1:30 marks the transition from "just runnin'" to "training" for something, whether it's IM or HIM

    Long bike: Similarly, for me that line is about 3hrs. I can drill the crap out of myself for a 3hr ride. Clip in at 7am, go hard as I can until 10a, have coffee with friends, home and fed by 11a, done. I can do this week after week with about zero mental cost. North of 3hrs and certainly north of 4hrs...I'm trainin'. I can still get in a good bit of get-faster cycling but it's a mental committment that I need to be careful about when how far out I...commit...to.

    Semi-long bike: my/our Sundays. 2-3hrs, same as Saturday. North of 3hrs...I'm definitely training. More commonly 2-2.5hrs, total hammer session.

    So look at your own training within this framework and ask yourself:

    • What is my long event volume (long bike and long run) within which I can still accommodate a good bit of get-faster training?
    • What is my long event volume that is repeatable, week after week, with very little mental cost? This is a function of your endurance experience, lifestyle, personal life, etc.

    My envelope, for both of these points, is a ~3hr bike and a 1:20-30 long run. Your's might be different. Yours is yours and mine is mine and we each flex the EN plans to fit each of us. In my experience, those two bullets should be the primary determinants of training volume for the vast majority of your training season. Only in the last 12wks do we move outside of that envelope, to build the endurance neccessary to for the event.

     

  • Makes a lot of sense.  I'm working within those parameters right now for the next few weeks until Week 12. 

    I've been locked into a weekly Long Run of 90 mins since I rebuilt my running in Oct-Dec following the broken foot.

    My Long Ride is shorter though - more in the 2-2.5 hour range but I'm kicking the crap out of myself on those rides.  And it's very repeatable. 

    Thanks for the advice Rich.

  • x2 on continuing to kick the crap out of yourself until the volume says you can't! It works...
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