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Boise 70.3, Kansas 70.3 and Syracuse 70.3 now have 100 70.3 WC slots

http://ironman.com/mediacenter/pressreleases/select-ironman-70.3-events-to-offer-expanded-2012-ironman-world-championship-70.3-qualification-opportuni#axzz1p5ucKXMx

Discuss!

Obviously this was done because those three races aren't selling very well.  After all... who the hell wants to go to Boise, Lawrence or Syracuse for anything?  I grew up and spent the first half of my life in Syracuse and couldn't wait to get the heck out of there after graduating from college in 1992.  I've never been to Boise or Lawrence but they're certainly not on my list of places I must see in my life. They both rank slightly ahead of Baghdad in that regard. 

I was already registered for Syracuse.  My parents and a bunch of my family still live there so I'm forced to return once or twice per year. I figure I might as well race while I'm there.  Registrations dwindled a lot from the inaugural race in 2010 to last year.  The date was changed for 2012 to the end of June from its previous mid-September date.  Registration numbers were still low despite the much better date.

I thought I would have a fighting chance for a 70.3 WC slot at 'Cuse due to the weak/small field and a little help from some rolldowns. There were only nine sub-5:00 M40-44 finishers last year so it was a possibility with a little bit of luck.  Now there will be nearly triple the amount of slots.  I'm not sure my odds will be better because one would think some more stud AG'ers will show up to snag an "easier" qualifying slot.  Should be interesting.

Comments

  • I'm racing Syracuse as my first ever 70.3. I think I'll start training harder now! Just kidding, I don't have a (real) chance of qualifying this year so I guess it doesn't really impact me. I will say I typically have more fun when there's more people at a race, but if they're all front of the pack AGers I probably won't be around them (so again, I'm unaffected by this). Even with this move I'm not sure it'll draw that many more people.
  • Posted By Doug Johnson on 15 Mar 2012 08:11 AM

    I'm racing Syracuse as my first ever 70.3. I think I'll start training harder now! Just kidding, I don't have a (real) chance of qualifying this year so I guess it doesn't really impact me. I will say I typically have more fun when there's more people at a race, but if they're all front of the pack AGers I probably won't be around them (so again, I'm unaffected by this). Even with this move I'm not sure it'll draw that many more people.



    I think I agree with the bolded part.  It will certainly draw in some more participants but a lot of people have their race schedules set.  I think this would have more impact had they announced it six months out instead of three.  Less people equals a much better shot at a LVQ slot for me though.

  • I wonder if this will be the case in 2013? I note that Kansas 70.3 is an EN targetted race for next year.
  • @ Bob, I'll be rooting for you as you pass me in the first 25 yards of the swim! I hope there's not a surge of entries for your sake.
  • Posted By Bob McCallum on 15 Mar 2012 06:58 AM

    I'm not sure my odds will be better because one would think some more stud AG'ers will show up to snag an "easier" qualifying slot.

    This is the key question in my mind.

    Last year when 70.3 Racine -- like most of the 70.3 races -- had 50 slots I was able to get one on a rolldown. After all, Racine is at the end of July so you'd expect the rolldowns to be deep. I am M3539 and turned in a 4:48:48 on a 106 heat index day. The race in Vegas was an absolute blast and I'd love to go back. Also I have some scores to settle with the run course there.

    This year I figure I can improve a bit in the standings at Racine but not a whole lot, and with only 30 slots my return to Vegas is a real longshot.

    So obviously the email from Ironman was of significant interest to me, a classic "on the bubble" athlete. Increasing to 100 slots is huge. That would probably put 8-9 slots in my AG. But I'd still be on the bubble for outright qualification assuming a "normal" field. So if the field ends up jacked with guys like me then I'm probably hosed. And rolldowns won't be deep...not only because people showing up actually want to go to Vegas, but also because it is an earlier-season race and people can make it happen (at Racine and Steelhead there are only 7 and 4 weeks to Vegas, respectively, so a lot of people just can't make it happen).

    Syracuse is on a terrible weekend for me because I'm supposed to be racing an Olympic-disance race with my Dad that weekend...actually I'm treating it almost as an "A" race for the season and want to get a PB. So despite the pull of the Dinosaur BBQ for after the race, it probably won't happen. But I could certainly make Kansas work...I'd probably exit the JOS in week 15 and start the 12-week HIM plan in week #4 on Apr 9. Which means I'd have to start swimming next week....

    Man, I'm torn on this one!!!!

  • I also need to think about whether or not I really would want to train and travel for the 70.3 WC's if I was lucky enough to qualify.  I'm doing IMAZ and was planning on hitting Vegas in the days after the race.  I have my sched set so that I was not doing much training during the summer.  It was basically finish 'Cuse in June and then nothing until IMAZ in November.  I wasn't really going to get crazy with the IMAZ training until September.  It would be an honor to qualify for the 70.3 and this could be the best shot I might ever have at doing so.  But... training hard during the summer wasn't in the plan.  Training in Houston during the summer is like torture.  It's ridiculously hot and humid.  I'm already traveling three times for races this year and while my wife is understanding, I can guarantee she's not going to be pleased if I took a LVQ slot and decided to train all summer and travel to Vegas in September - especially since we had a whole Sedona/Grand Canyon/Vegas trip planned post-IMAZ during Thanksgiving week.

    Basically, I might have to put the ego boost aside for the "greater good."  I could probably earn all kinds of SAU's by turning down a slot (which really is a goal/dream of mine) because it doesn't fit into our family plan for the year.

    Of course, odds are that I may not qualify and it would be a moot point.

  • Playing the pity card for SAU's! Love it. Always thinking one step ahead!

  • Honestly Bob, if you get the slot you should take it. As a guy who travels to Houston often and has run in Memorial Park in June and July I realize the difficulty -- no, impossibility -- of truly effective run training. But the race is really an awesome experience. Maybe I'm just naive because I've never done a full IM, but the 'event factor' was really special. And the quality of the other competitors was utterly humbling. I've had an unfinished 'race review' on my to-do list for a while and eventually I'll post it, but I put a bunch of details into my RR in that forum if you want to skim it. The race left a real impression on me!! As for your season plan, there is no reason it has to be treated as an "A" race (I certainly didn't treat it that way)...you could use it as good motivation to stay in 'decent shape' prior to kicking off the IMAZ training block.
  • Oh, and I should add that I thought I was burning a shit-ton of SAUs for the race because the Thursday before was my 10th wedding anniversary. But I took my wife to Vegas for the weekend and really had a great time. So much so that she wants me to qualify again!!!!

  • Guys....guys!!!! Don't worry about the race and where it is at and how many slots there will be. Just train your little touches off, show up with your best game to win your age group and then it just don't matter what race your in and if there are any more slots or roll downs.

    I'm thinking why spend all that $$$ and time to travel far away in the hopes that there won't be 5 to 10 other studs that train 7 to 8 hours a day with no real job and should be pro that show up (that would be my luck) and you don't get the slot anyway.

    If it happens it happens, don't think or dwell too much on it, it'll drive ya nuts.

    Just my 2cents!! image
  • Guys....guys!!!! Don't worry about the race and where it is at and how many slots there will be. Just train your little touches off, show up with your best game to win your age group and then it just don't matter what race your in and if there are any more slots or roll downs.

    I'm thinking why spend all that $$$ and time to travel far away in the hopes that there won't be 5 to 10 other studs that train 7 to 8 hours a day with no real job and should be pro that show up (that would be my luck) and you don't get the slot anyway.

    If it happens it happens, don't think or dwell too much on it, it'll drive ya nuts.

    Just my 2cents!!

    Great advice! Thanks for reminding us this is recreational athletics and supposed to be fun.
  • Posted By Jeff Brandenburg on 15 Mar 2012 04:28 PM

    Playing the pity card for SAU's! Love it. Always thinking one step ahead!



    This isn't my first rodeo. 

  • Posted By Matt Aaronson on 15 Mar 2012 04:45 PM

    Honestly Bob, if you get the slot you should take it. As a guy who travels to Houston often and has run in Memorial Park in June and July I realize the difficulty -- no, impossibility -- of truly effective run training. But the race is really an awesome experience. Maybe I'm just naive because I've never done a full IM, but the 'event factor' was really special. And the quality of the other competitors was utterly humbling. I've had an unfinished 'race review' on my to-do list for a while and eventually I'll post it, but I put a bunch of details into my RR in that forum if you want to skim it. The race left a real impression on me!! As for your season plan, there is no reason it has to be treated as an "A" race (I certainly didn't treat it that way)...you could use it as good motivation to stay in 'decent shape' prior to kicking off the IMAZ training block.



    What also needs mentioning is the fact I have been training since January 1 for the Texas 70.3 and NOLA 70.3.  Then I have Syracuse in June.  If (and it's a "Big IF") I LVQ'd and took the slot it would mean non-stop training from January 1 through IMAZ in mid-November. That's more or less 10.5 months without a break.  I'm going to burn out on that schedule.  I was looking forward to the summer down time.

  • Posted By Bob McCallum on 15 Mar 2012 06:03 PM
    What also needs mentioning is the fact I have been training since January 1 for the Texas 70.3 and NOLA 70.3.  Then I have Syracuse in June. 



     

    Well, that changes the picture just a bit...

  • @ Trent...spoken like someone capable of winning their AG!! Which I am not!!

    Look, we all know that any goal that depends on things outside of your control isn't a totally reasonable goal. But that doesn't make it inappropriate motivation even for a recreational athlete. After my season ended last year I was a bit burned out and thought I'd have a lot of fun just doing unstructured stuff. Instead I gained 10lb and found excuses not to leave the house for running or biking...and felt like shit too. I was super-worried as the start of the OS drew near that the prior season was an anomoly and I'd have trouble with motivation and getting my speed back. But the minute I got into the OS it was "game on"...I had goals and structure and embraced it. Maybe that way of thinking is unique to me...at the end of the day I am happiest when motivated by something. And if I don't achieve it because of something outside my control -- the elusive 40:00 10k for example (too windy, to warm, etc, etc), then no worries...try again next time!!
  • Posted By Dan Gilliatt on 15 Mar 2012 05:57 PM
    Guys....guys!!!! Don't worry about the race and where it is at and how many slots there will be. Just train your little touches off, show up with your best game to win your age group and then it just don't matter what race your in and if there are any more slots or roll downs.



    I'm thinking why spend all that $$$ and time to travel far away in the hopes that there won't be 5 to 10 other studs that train 7 to 8 hours a day with no real job and should be pro that show up (that would be my luck) and you don't get the slot anyway.



    If it happens it happens, don't think or dwell too much on it, it'll drive ya nuts.



    Just my 2cents!!


    Great advice! Thanks for reminding us this is recreational athletics and supposed to be fun.



    I agree not to take things too seriously and I'm just going to train and race the way I want to do it but tripling the number of 70.3 WC slots really got me thinking.  I think there were 4 or 5 M40-44 Vegas slots for Syracuse last year when there were 40 slots available, so maybe 10-12 assuming a similar ratio this year (or maybe more since some of the less popular AG's won't get more than last year). 10th place last year was 5:04, which is certainly doable for me assuming no medical or mechanical problems.  I'm really not going to overly concern myself with it all though.

  • I was already planning to go to KS. I'm another bubble guy and I'll confess I'd love to qualify. In my age group it's kind of a potshot how many real studs there are (typically 4:40 ish), and then the race for the next group of guys is near the 5:00 mark, one way or another depending on weather, course etc. Last year, I did a 5:06 for 6th because there were only a couple real studs. (Could have taken a roll down, but I was doing WI.) What we might see in the 40+ groups is those guys migrating to these races to get a sure spot, so the extras might not affect us still-quick-but-not-killer-fast guys. We'll see.
  •  Thought for the day:

    "Ah, but a man's reach should exceed his grasp. Or what's a heaven for?"

    Robert Browning

  • I think this is a combination of a trial/test and a way to bump registration at a few events that typically have lower numbers.

    We obviously know the number 1 goal is to sell out races and add more races, but they have a finite number of KQ and Vegas slots so they can't just keep adding races with slots and have to do something.

    I'm SURE that WTC is reconsidering how they handle slots for AGers to allow them to meet those objects. The are testing a points system in Europe right now and while the direct purpose of that is not to use points to KQ, it would be very easy to use it for that purpose. Reducing slots at almost every 70.3 and then doubling the slots at 3 definitely seems like a way to see like a way to create some regional or maybe national championship type races to draw the people that want slots to certain races.

    I would not be surprised at all if next they go to 1 slot per AG at every IM/70.3 and then select qualifiers or championships around the world have a fair bit more slot. A few years of that and then I bet some races start getting no slots at all. For example, very very few of the top AGers or top Pros race IM wisconsin...they have much better things to be doing every September.

    Also, I agree with Bob. My continued issue with WTC is that they do not communication changes far enough in advance. We are forced to plan our races a full year in advance but then they go and change things after they have our money. I've been burned by this before, IMWI/Vegas on the same day and that was announce after i already paid for IMWI and paid for the Oceanside, and I talked to WTC customer service and they said sorry shit happens. I personally told Ben Fretic (SP?) about this and he pretended to care for about a second, but the reality is changes like this only impact a very small percent of their customer base. To be fair, I also complained when they reduced the IMWI Kona slots after the race was sold out already, and after enough of us contacted them, they did make it right and add the extra slots back.

    The sport is growing and with that comes pros and cons just like anything else.
  • Bob, I did Boise in 2009 and loved the race and venue. My wife has wanted to retire there ever since. Now I'm at the age where it is win or go home so my tri-cations are planned around seeing something new. If I win tomorrow I'm definitely going to Vegas. If not then I'll just continue on reminding myself that the journey is why I'm in it.
  • Here are what the 100 slot allocations would've looked like using last year's numbers:

    Boise 70.3

    M18-24 2 

    M25-29 6 

    M30-34 10 

    M35-39 13 

    M40-44 12 

    M45-49 8 

    M50-54 6 

    M55-59 4 

    M60-64 2 

    M65-69 1 

    M70-74 0 

    M75-79 1 

    M80+ 0 

    W18-24 2 

    W25-29 3 

    W30-34 6 

    W35-39 6 

    W40-44 5 

    W45-49 4 

    W50-54 3 

    W55-59 2 

    W60-64 1 

    W65-69 1 

    W70-74 1 

    W75-79 0 

    W80+ 0 

    Total 100  

  • Kansas 70.3

    M18-24 3 

    M25-29 7 

    M30-34 13 

    M35-39 13 

    M40-44 13 

    M45-49 7 

    M50-54 6 

    M55-59 3 

    M60-64 2 

    M65-69 1 

    M70-74 1 

    M75-79 0 

    M80+ 0 

    W18-24 2 

    W25-29 4 

    W30-34 5 

    W35-39 5 

    W40-44 5 

    W45-49 4 

    W50-54 2 

    W55-59 1 

    W60-64 1 

    W65-69 1 

    W70-74 0 

    W75-79 0 

    W80+ 0 

    Total 100 

  • Syracuse 70.3 

    M18-24 5 

    M25-29 9 

    M30-34 8 

    M35-39 10 

    M40-44 12 

    M45-49 9 

    M50-54 5 

    M55-59 3 

    M60-64 2 

    M65-69 1 

    M70-74 1 

    M75-79 0 

    M80+ 0 

    W18-24 2 

    W25-29 4 

    W30-34 4 

    W35-39 5 

    W40-44 5 

    W45-49 4 

    W50-54 3 

    W55-59 2 

    W60-64 1 

    W65-69 1 

    W70-74 1 

    W75-79 0 

    W80+ 0 

    Total 100 

  • Posted By Bob McCallum on 18 Mar 2012 09:51 AM

    Here are what the 100 slot allocations would've looked like using last year's numbers:

     

    Btw did you do this based on last year's slots or finishers? In any case, 13 slots for an AG is gigantic. I've done a bunch of research on the KS course (thanks to former EN-er Aleksander Tasic) and the results and figure I'd be unlikely to crack the top 10. And of course once the field gets jacked up due to the extra slots that becomes less likely. And we should not expect deep rolldowns.

    All that said, this whole thought process has put me in a place where I'm itching to do an earlier-season race. So I think I might just do it.

    Which means the WTC gets what they wanted in the first place...more registrations!!!!

  • Posted By Matt Ancona on 16 Mar 2012 10:24 AM



    I would not be surprised at all if next they go to 1 slot per AG at every IM/70.3 and then select qualifiers or championships around the world have a fair bit more slot.



     

    I don't think that's a bad idea...it'd be interesting to see how it plays out. The rolldown process for 70.3 events is very inconsistent - there historically have been races where not all the slots got handed out due to lack of demand, yet others where slots were insanely competitive. There is understandable regional bias. At Racine you get deep rolldowns because a lot of people are training for IMWI and it's pretty late in the qualifying calendar. But in Austin, as Matt A knows, the rolldowns are not deep at all -- it is very early in the calendar and it is close to Vegas physically. I think the move from Clearwater to Vegas and the new timing vis-a-vis Kona, combined with the great reviews from the first Vegas event, will cause some of this to change...it is a much more desirable race now. But the inconsistency will still remain...Vegas just isn't the same as Kona. So some initiative to do this all differently...be it points or a big qualifier race...would be an interesting option.

    I fully agree that communicating all this withmore time to enable planning is key.

  • Posted By Matt Aaronson on 18 Mar 2012 10:06 PM
    Posted By Bob McCallum on 18 Mar 2012 09:51 AM

    Here are what the 100 slot allocations would've looked like using last year's numbers:

     

    Btw did you do this based on last year's slots or finishers? In any case, 13 slots for an AG is gigantic. I've done a bunch of research on the KS course (thanks to former EN-er Aleksander Tasic) and the results and figure I'd be unlikely to crack the top 10. And of course once the field gets jacked up due to the extra slots that becomes less likely. And we should not expect deep rolldowns.

    All that said, this whole thought process has put me in a place where I'm itching to do an earlier-season race. So I think I might just do it.

    Which means the WTC gets what they wanted in the first place...more registrations!!!!



    It's based on last year's starters.  It's the number of starters that determines allocation percentages.  That's my understanding anyway.

  • @Bob - i'm not sure if it is the number of people that check in at registration and pick up their chip or the actual number of starters. Either way those should be very close.

    @Matt - KS is a GREAT course for an EN athlete. Much different than racine or steelhead. The bike course is very IMWI like with plenty of rolling hills. There is only one real climb and it's like mile 52, however there are enough short climbs that people try to power over them and trash their legs. The run has enough of a hill (and you do it twice) to keep you honest. I highly recommend it and if it wasn't a 9 hour drive, I would do it every year.... but muncie, racine and steelhead are all so much closer and therefore cheaper.
  • I just looked it up and it is based on starters.
  • FWIW- I (along with Liebs and Chris G) did Syracuse 70.3 in its inaugural year 2010, Volunteers were great, Best porta-johns ever (each was individually decorated and had poperie) and they put day-glow neon tape on any part of the road that you might not want to ride over on you bike. I know they changed the time of year, run course and finish area, but all-in-all, not a bad race. I'd consider it again. That WTC probably has low numbers at this race and wants to entice participants seems like a good business move.

    Did I forget to mention Dinosaur BBQ!?!?

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