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Treadmill vs. Outside speed

matthewbwardmatthewbward
in General Training Discussions

Curious about others' experiences with speed outside versus on the treadmill.  I find I can hold 15"-20"/mile faster times (5:50 vs 6:10 for a hard 30 minute effort, for instance) on the treadmill at 1% incline compared to outside.  It's annoying because my VDOT is based on treadmill tests (because of weather) and I have a hard time holding the prescribed times.  I'm just now getting outside and trying to figure out how to recalibrate.

Comments

  • mgraffeomgraffeo
    Matthew, thanks for posting this, as I was thinking of creating a thread on the same topic.

    I've always run faster on the treadmill at the same effort. I'd been running at 1% grade, and looking at the charts, that should feel like outside.

    Last weekend, I put a level on my treadmill at 0%, 1%, and 2%. Low and behold, my floor must not be level in the basement, because at 0%, it seems to actually be slightly downhill. 1% is basically level, and 2% starts to show some incline.

    So, I've been doing most of my runs at 2% now, which does seem to feel more like outside. That said, I did my last Vdot test at 2%, and ran a pace I'm not really sure I could hold outdoors. Gotta get outside and do a real race to actually check it.

    Interesting article by the Gait Guys in a magazine a few months ago (maybe Jan Triathlete mag?), suggesting that at the same incline, glute activation is lower on the treadmill vs. outdoor running due to hitting a constant speed moving belt, and therefore you should run at a higher incline to mimic outdoors.
  • Doug JohnsonDoug Johnson
    Matthew I was having the same concern until yesterday. All OS I've been running on the treadmill with my current vdot based on the TM. In the past I've found it significantly harder to run the same paces outside but yesterday I did 2 mile repeats at 6:12 & 6:15 (goal was 6:26) and then 15 minutes at 6:39 (goal was 6:49) and it was nowhere near as hard as I thought it would be. The course I ran on was pancake flat so that could be part of it. It also could be the unseasonably warm weather gave me some extra motivation. The real test will be Sunday doing the mile repeats and then adding 60 minutes at 6:49.

    I don't know how you could recalibrate...maybe get a feel for what you think you could run a 10k outside and "schwagg" your vdot from that?
  • tim cronktim cronk
    Great timing on thread..... My last two OS 5k tests were on the TM at 1 degree incline 19:53 and then 19:32.... Last weekend outside 5K race 20:07 with a higher HR no less.... gonna try the 2 degree incline on the TM now. There also could be a variable difference in the 5K distance outside vs the distance on the TM. I always get a little more distance with my Garmin VS the outside course giving me a higher vdot with my garmin data than the data from the course. I guess no way to compare distance on TM to oustide though.
  • Joseph LombardiJoseph Lombardi

     I tend to run at 1% incline...and do find tempo pace running easier on the TM v outside...however Track v. TM for repeats...I find outside easier/faster....I believe this has to do with terrain and mental engagement...it is much easier to "zone out" in tempo pace on the TM for 20-40 min. than outside (unless running in a motivated group or race.

    Running on the TM does alot to impact your running...including making you run too upright v proper outside form...which I think leads to slower/braking pace outside. 

  • Coach PatrickCoach Patrick
    It's hard to compare. Instead, do the OS and improve those numbers, get fitter, yay. Find an early season road race to murdalize yourself in (St Patty's 5k or 10k anyone????) and use that number (After you have recovered from the green beer!) as your new vDOT! image
  • MattAaronsonMattAaronson
    I'm the only guy in the world who seems to run slower on the TM (always 1.5% or 2% incline). Usually about 20 sec/mile slower in order to get the workout completed. On the mill my HR ends up getting jacked (due to the indoors) and the wheels fall off the bus. Interestingly my cadence is always ~5spm higher too. I did very few workous on the mill during the OS this year...I really hate it...Matthew, we have the same weather, toughen up!!!
  • jhbinscjhbinsc

    @Matt and Mike, what about calibration of TM causing high or low error vs outdoors? Is it true that many TM's are not closely calibrated and thus don't reflect true running speed to a high degree of certainty? I've heard people who only want to run on exact same TM daily since they feel others are giving them different paces for same RPE/HR.

  • Trent ProughTrent Prough
    I agree with Patrick... Just do the workouts and get crazy fit (be it on the TM or Outside) Test when it counts to start your in season training at a race (Yes kill yourself in the race) and go from there for the season. (Although I do find I can run a 5K on the TM at about my 1mile to 2k outside time (5:17pace) kinda messes with you when back outside so I do understand though.
  • mgraffeomgraffeo
    Jeff, that's a good point. I checked the calibration of my treadmill per the suggestion in Daniels' book a year or so ago, and it was pretty close, so I haven't really considered it in a while. I will have to check it again, as I haven't thought about that as a possible contributor.

    Drillbit, you're just a maniac! 5k at 5:17 on the 'mill? Dude, you'll be crushing dreams out there!
  • Dave TalloDave Tallo
    indoors, I am able to run at my outdoor EP +30, but it's at z4 effort.

    Needless to say, I don't run on treadmills often.
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