Watts to kg , BIG BOYS
Reading Lauren's post regarding the calculations post on this forum , I found the calculating formula interesting.
I started playing with the numbers as I apply them to myself first and figured I'm not the only big boy in house.
I really like holding onto 173 lbs, my race weight in season or so but the cost of holding that I'm not willing to pay
year round.
I can stay OS at about 183lbs for the most part and have inched up to 190 lbs , depending on weight training and MORE food.
I also am below 200 for a FTP with the goal of hitting something higher, I mean that is why we are here.
So in doing some creative math losing more weight upping the watts. Man I'm looking at having to lose A LOT of weight
and bump up my FTP A LOT to achieve as Mike said " 3.3 is pretty solid around here ".
I'm not going to be a solid guy around here and I'm sure I'm not alone as I know I'm not one of the bigger boys in house.
Was an interesting post and I'm not crying in my Cheerios it was just an eye opener so to speak.
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http://home.trainingpeaks.com/media/69406/powerprofiling_v4.xls shows you power profiles. A 3.0 w/kg puts one at a high Cat 5, 3.3 at a mid Cat 4. Nothing to sneeze at.
And don't get too wrapped up in the numbers. MAin thing is to continue to progress as the process takes years. And most importantly, have fun!
1) speed on the flats is mostly a function of your absolute watts, and how aero you are. So, work to bump your FTP, and work on getting more aero. For many folks who are overweight, losing some weight also helps them get more comfortable being lower, so the weight side helps both.
2) speed on the hills is all about watts / kg
So, for both, increasing your watts, and reducing your kg, are the right things to focus on. There's very, very few AG athletes who would not benefit from a focus on both.
I've found a number of times when W/Kg has played a huge role, and other times where it means squat, all in a manner of minutes. Here's an example:
1) American TTT in 2010 - I came into that hellish weekend of hilly racing at about 200 lbs with an estimated (pre PM) FTP of around 220. That puts me at 2.42 W/Kg, fairly low. Everyone, and I mean every single little 90 lb girl, just CRUSHED me on every climb no matter how badly I wanted to hang on their wheel. These people that do that race tend to be better than the average bear, mind you, and their power to weight ratio was much better and I could do nothing. I got shelled.
2) Same race - day 3 half Ironman - I descend like a madman through the foothills, reaching speeds of 55.9mph. Gravity, cruel mistress and fickle bitch that she is, continues to punish me on the hills. But on the flats and descents I tuck, coast, and let her pull me back to Earth, passing at huge speed differentials the many fit, lean, light competitors that are pumping their legs furiously without hope to try to reach those speeds. In the end, my splits were mid pack despite poor w/kg, just because I rode smart (easy up the hills) and aggressive (stayed on the power until topping out and descending, then coasting) and used my strengths to my advantage.
3) crit and mountain bike racing - I have a friend who is a Kona qualifier in the 30-34 AG (~9:40 in Louisville). He can TT at sick power, his FTP right now is near 380w with a w/kg over 4.1. To put it bluntly, I would kick his ass in a crit race or mountain biking. He's not coordinated, he can't ride in a pack, he has no tactical mind; he just pushes huge wattage in a straight line, which is awesome for Ironman. Unless he TT'd right off the front of the race pack, he'd never survive the sprint/coast/sprint/coast/corner/draft mentality. In short, his wattage means nothing in those types of races.
I agree with Mike that most of us benefit greatly from both approaches. In fact, at 185 lbs now with FTP of 267w, I'm now the proud owner of a new 3.18 w/kg. Can't wait to test drive it all year in many different types of races! Good luck to you!
Jay
A little thought experiment: Twin brothers (well known to Coach R as Timmy and Bobby), who are the same shape, weight, have the same bike and aero position. Timmy has been training for a year, and now had a w/kg of 3.3; Bobby is a slacker and is @ 2.8 Put them on a flat 20k TT course against each other. Who's gonna finish first? Alternatively, if they go at the same speed, who will collapse first?
Point is, w/kg is not just about ability on hills, as Mike points out. Because the "w" part is, of course, your FTP. Improve that, your ability to go faster and/or hold the same speed for longer improves, no matter the geography.
So on a flat course, If a 150lbs rider with a w/kg of 3.0 and a 200lbs rider with a w/kg of 3.0 are on the same bike same aero position going at a IF of .80 are they going the same speed?
said another way, if I have a FTP of say 200w and jimmy has an FTP of 250 but he outweighs me by 50lbs can we train together at a similar pace???
After all we are all trying to be the best we can be and I appreciate your feedback with all our post. Good job and keep it up.
@ Everyone , good post here I have learned a lot with just a few adding to the conversation. For example the the W/kg isn't the end all be all as I thought it was.
The Big Boys can smoke your ass downhill and in the flats. It just becomes an issue with climbing. My racing at 173, my wife said I looked like a little boy, ha ha
nothing wrong with that number mind you. In house we have lots of bigger numbers here than mine, hope they get a chance to read this.
@ Jay , good follow up.
@David, thanks for starting this thread...
I think after all these years I remain the largest person in the haus. And as such, Magnus Backstredt a now retired pro cyclist and Swedish time trial champ is my hero. He won Paris Roubaix and finished the TDF a bunch of times- at 6'5", 210 ish. Amazing. Over 200 lbs for a grand tour pro cyclist is like Charles Barkley at 6'5" leading the NBA in rebounding. Both happened but never again. I love seeing the raw power (absolute) of guys like Boonen and Cancellara in the one day races with no mountain insanity where the w/kg rules. They can punish higher w/kg guys on the flatter terrain and short climbs. And Cancellara is "big" at at 165-70 ish?
For me to have a 4 w/kg I have to get to 400 ft and down to 200 lbs. It will happen right after I ride in the Kentucky Derby.
Interesting thread folks! Looks like I've got some work to do...
To get to 4.0 w/kg, I need an FTP of 450.
That spread sheet really makes me feel slow.
they are just numbers! you still can get aero and hammer the flatter sections!
@ Sam I am right there with you. Btwn learning how to descend REALLY fast (50+MPH) and pounding on the flats we can still keep up with those scrawny shits!
Then....back into the hills.....oy
Duration: 10:00
Work: 190 kJ
Norm Power: 351
VI: 1.1
Pw:HR: 10.78%
Pa:HR: -129.68%
Distance: 2.993 mi
Elevation Gain: 246 ft
Elevation Loss: 187 ft
Grade: 0.3 % (52 ft)
Min Max Avg
Power: 0 832 318 watts
Heart Rate: 140 161 151 bpm
Cadence: 29 113 83 rpm
Speed: 5.5 32.1 18.0 mph
And wondering what is your type of terrain? 350w for 10' is great but am I reading this wrong, 18mph average for that 10'?
Yeah, I hope that was that nasty uphill section!
Duration: 1:52:42 (2:02:35)
Work: 1538 kJ
TSS: 150.3 (intensity factor 0.906)
Norm Power: 290
VI: 1.27
Pw:HR: 17.05%
Pa:HR: -12.91%
Distance: 33.428 mi
Elevation Gain: 1178 ft
Elevation Loss: 1214 ft
Grade: -0.0 % (-43 ft)
Min Max Avg
Power: 0 891 228 watts
Heart Rate: 0 161 138 bpm
Cadence: 20 113 81 rpm
Speed: 1.7 38.5 17.8 mph
Pace 1:33 34:29 3:22 min/mi
Altitude: 502 1004 735 ft
Crank Torque: 0 786 235 lb-in
Temperature: 39.2 59 44.1 Fahrenheit
W/kg strictly only holds when gravity is the major resistance (i.e., going uphill)
On the flats, W/xxx matters, but what is less clear is what exactly XXX is. What it is, though is essentially "frontal area". This is the reason that people say W/kg still holds on the flats...because heavier guys are *generally* bigger. It's obviously not perfect.
If you could be heavier by being denser instead of being bigger, then it wouldn't matter much on the flats. :-)
All I know is, stronger + lighter = faster.
Agreed. I ride a 20km TT every 2 weeks on the same course throughout the spring-fall. Last year I had a pretty good set of data to base some testing, so I made some radical changes to my position to see the outcome.
Result? By rolling my elbows in toward centerline, removing all spacers and flipping my stem to really slam the front end I was able to make a serious change in CdA. Now, mind you, the new position is ONLY good for sprint/Oly type racing and I have to put the spacers back in for HIM distance. However, at 23 less average watts I was able to ride the course 0.6mph faster.
So, my absolute wattage and w/kg was lower during the test, but because it is relatively flat I was able to increase average speed at a lower wattage due only to improvement in frontal area (i.e. reduced aerodynamic drag).
Hard to get the ego to swallow the lower wattage, but ultimately you're looking for the best split time in a TT
Squalls and sleet??!?!! EPIC dude!
I also got a new very aero fit from Todd Kenyon and find my absolute FTP is lower (may also be due in part to wireless SRM being new) but my speed is higher. It is hard to swallow a lower FTP but I am faster and what matters is speed not numbers right?
On the plus side, I'm able to hold my super aero position (17.5 cm drop!) for the full 112 mi thx to Todd, so I can ride it all year and adapt fully to it and stay very aero at IM distances as well as sprints/10 mi TT's.
I will post elsewhere, but that's about the same thing I'm observing for short cranks. No change in power (or not much), but faster. I'll explain why, or at least why I think.