Caffeine during races
Following the excellent discussion in the forum on Dr. Noakes, hydration and sodium, I thing it would be interesting to hear how much:
Salt
Caffeine
Iboprofen
The team is supplementing with during races...
Personally, I just started using salt tablets last year and only used a very small amount.. I can't tell the difference.
I have also been supplement with 2x200 mg of Caffeine in races, and find that is enough to make me dizzy (when not moving)...I never drink coffee and cut out Coke etc. 6-8 weeks before a race.
If I recall correctly, I think Rich last year mentioned that he took 2000 mg during a race..... That sounds like a lot to me.... How do you guys time it?
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That said, watch it with the ibuprofen. It can screw with your kidneys and is genuinely dangerous if you mess up your hydration. I don't have the good primary literature on this, but if you do a google search on "ibuprofen and endurance sports" or something of that nature, you'll find lots of secondary articles. I think a lot of us do it from time to time, but think twice, especially on a hot day or during a race (where you are likely to be pushing yourself to the limits anyway).
+1 on the Ibuprofen in a long event. It is excreted by kidneys and should be avoided during long races or training events.
As for the caffeine, 2000 mg would be very excessive and the research shows very high doses are not proven to be more effective than lower doses on the order of 2-6 mg/kg. A 75 kg person would benefit from 150-450 mg of caffeine.
WADA has gone back and forth over the years on banning high dose caffeine and I'm not sure what today's position is on a ban but it used to be on the order of 10-12 mg/kg equivalent of caffeine. 2000 mg would be in excess of that and likely not beneficial and unhealthy to boot! Probably Rich took 200 mg not 2000 mg but he can give his opinion on the subject.
I've often heard the only 3 proven ergogenics are:
1) water
2) carbohydrates
3) caffeine
Zero ibuprofen during races. Several threads here and elsewhere suggest it's a really bad idea. There are folks who do it (including some of the fast dudes here), but there were also fast dudes in the Tour de France who used to take cyanide, so YMMV. I'm pretty certain that I don't want my kidneys focusing on anything other than hydration levels during the waning hours of a long day.
For that matter, I seldom use it any more in daily life, excepting the occasional migraine headache or actual muscle sprain.
I'm not the guy to ask re: salt. I've been so inconsistent with my application of it, that I don't have a good system. I'm just fairly certain that I haven't been taking enough most of the time...
Salt: Since I became unable to swallow salt pills while riding or running after my accident 18 months ago, I've been investigating alternative means of getting Na and Potassium. The amazing thing I found is - Ironman Perform, the "energy drink" supplied at all US IM races (don't know about elsewhere) has about 200 mg Sodium per 8 ounces. This is more than enough for my needs during an Ironman, assuming 24 oz/hour on the bike and a similar amount on the run. It's higher than any other liquid supplement I could find. It took me a while to get adjusted to the taste, but now I keep it stocked at home in powder form for training.
Caffeine: I'm not a coffee drinker, one diet coke a day is my indulgence. The times I've supplemented with caffeine (e.g., 200 mg pills) before or in the early/middle portion of a race, I have had MASSIVE problems during the latter stages of the race. But taking the Coke offered during the run seems to agree with me.
Ibuprofen: NEVER! For the reasons noted by others. I do use 2-3 Naproxen (long-acting form of Ibuprofen) a day for 2-3 days after an IM to help with reducing the pain from inflammation.
As noted, all the supplements (and training) in the world will be useless if you don't keep the fire stoked with carbs throughout any race longer than about 2 hours.
Not concerned aout caffeine during short course races and I have no problem taking Advil during a race. I just have to make sure I am hydrated. Usually no more than 1,200 mg.
As for 70.3's: One bottle of Starbucks Awake black tea (unsweetened) in a bottle on the bike. I sip along with the other fluids I use. Tea is fine warm.
For IM's I have a bottle of Starbucks Awake black tea in special needs for the bike and run.
I have found I get a nice bump from the caffeine. It also works great on hot days when we have 3+ hour bike sessions. Stop at Starbucks and get a Starbucks Awake black ICED tea. De-lish.
You're not the only one here who's used it with success (I remember from another thread a few folks who indicated they found it extremely helpful), so I'm not trying to single you out. However, having used it without problem doesn't mean that you aren't altering your risk profile any time you choose to do it in the future. The risk of using ibuprofen during endurance events is much to high for it to be considered a recommended practice. The voice of all the docs in the haus plus countless recommendations of sports docs all over needs to be clearly represented.
Caffeine, OTOH, seems to be pretty benign excepting the GI distress it causes some. I once joked that I showed up to a local sprint with enough caffeine in me to kill a small horse. That said, the association of marathon race directors does seem to think that excessive caffeine may play a role in sudden death during marathons, and recommends limiting your intake.
Please don't post any links to the contrary. I like it too much.
I generally tell people to hold the caffeine until they need that extra "pop" on the bike or run.
I didn’t really intend for this to become a dissertation on caffeine, but here we go…
I am not a coffee drinker and try to limit the amount of caffeine I use on a day to day basis. I'm not sure if I have a sensitivity to it, but I seem to easily create a dependence for it and suffer withdrawal symptoms and migraines when I do start drinking coffee / using caffeine and stop doing so for any reason.
Even so, I still used caffeine in racing pretty consistently last 2 years. I would mix some PreRace (first endurance) into my pre-swim bottle, then usually have a bottle on my bike that also had a light mix of pre-race in it. However, I've heard a saying to the effect of the greatest problem with caffeine is that once you use it, you have nowhere else to go.
Reflecting on my experience, I've found that personally to be very true. I just don't find that the effects of caffeine have the longevity to get me through an entire longer event like a 70.3 and certainly not an Ironman. I’ve found the effects of the caffeine wearing off during a longer race not always pleasant and subsequent doses less effective. As a result, I start to feel like I’m entering this pattern where I’m constantly chasing a buzz that will inevitably wear off leaving me feeling even worse than before I started, most often during the run portion of the event where I don’t need anything more to make me feel any worse than I likely already do.
As a result of all of this, I’ve tried to shift my usage of caffeine later and later in 70.3 or longer events. It is most effective right after my first use, which I feel is a complete waste for the swim. I find myself hopping up and down on the beach practically chomping at the bit to get in the water with my heart racing. Yet this is the event where I need to just not be stupid and swim a smart and steady race to get me out on the bike feeling good.
When I shifted to starting a caffeine dose on the bike, I found it fantastic to lift me out of any mid-bike lulls and recapture that ‘my race pace is effortless’ feeling. But that feeling was still largely fleeting, leaving me again either late bike or most likely in the run.
For this year, caffeine has basically become what amounts to my nuclear option. As a weapon of last resort, it’s extremely effective, but I simply just find once I’ve gone there, there’s really no where else to go.
As a result, I’ve eliminated caffeine from my pre-race regimen, and also from my on-bike nutrition (for 70.3+). My plan has been to hit it in the mid stages of the run when I’m likely suffering for that boost to power me through to the end, but frankly I couldn’t really think of a great delivery system for on the run and at my last race (Wildflower) I simply forgot about it and did the whole thing caffeine free. The run inevitably took me to a dark place and I began to lose momentum the last few miles. This would have been a great time for a charge of caffeine, but I still haven’t decided what I want my run-course delivery system to be, not all races have flat coke.
http://www.firstendurance.com/2011/06/video-the-efs-holy-hand-grenade/
I have a large coffee each morning and that is it. For most races because I don't want my stomach upset I forgo the morning coffee, but this always leaves me with a wicked headache by the end of the race.
I've tried pre-race and it really jacked me up before the swim, too much so. I might cut the portion in half and try it again but that stuff is crazy strong.
I definitely didn't/don't do a full dose of PreRace before a swim. Likewise, I'd literally be shaking. I started cutting down the doses, and I've inadvertently made a holy hand grenade on my own with the intention of slamming it in T2, but I never actually did it. That is basically my plan now though, I might either pop one of the sustained release PreRace caps in T2 or late on the bike, or just bring something akin to the hand grenade with me on the run. Whether it be entirely placebo or not, I'd love to have one final secret weapon in the arsenal to pull out in the last stages of the race when the going starts to get extremely tough.
Pretty sure I didn't do 2000mg of caffeine
.
Going forward I would I do what Patrick described, though I'd take a couple tabs of Vivarin out on the run course with me. I drink a lot of coffee and not sure Coke has enough to really do anything for me, though I luvs me a frozen bottle of coke in my jersey for a long hot climbing ride.
Vit I: I don't do it any more during a race, due to the discussions we've had in here. Also, it's not like you take a painkiller and suddenly everything is unicorns and fairies again, especially at the IM distance. You're usually hurting very very badly, everywhere, in the last 10 miles and I'm not sure anything short of vicodine, Oxy or morphine will be of much help.