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Question for Power Geeks from Wannabe Power Geek

 Here is my dilemma.  I just bought a Quarq Cinqo (thanks, Rich) and am in rapture with it.  The unit works great, it loads of fun and I can use any wheel I want.  The Cinqo is on my road bike.

On the Time Trial bikes I am running my Powertap G3 laced into a Zipp 404s.  Two power meters was not the original plan, but thing just evolved that way and since I am constantly changes bikes depending on the ride it really works out great.  But, I has created an interesting situation.  The numbers don't seem to jive with each other.  Which is no big deal, but as start planning my race pacing for Wildflower it has got me thinking....

I am really new to racing with power and sort of racing in general.  Wildflower is my first 70.3. To date I have been doing sprints and basically just racing at my threshold, but I degress.  The thing is I can make more power on the road bike, as reported by the Cinqo then I seem to be able to on the TT bike as reported by the Powertap. The RPE seems the same but the watts just seem lower by 10-15%. I can spike the watts on the TT to hit the road bike numbers with no trouble, but over a given period of time the watts are lower.

This is not a big deal because I am not hyper focused on the number for sake of the number.  I just use it as a measuring stick for training and pacing.  So the question is - is this normal road versus TT or is this Cinqo versus Powertap?  Because, now I think I need to test on each system and have two FTPs depending on the platform for training and racing..  Or I could just swag it..

 

Curious to hear your thoughts...  As I said, this is sort of geeky.....

Comments

  • Dino - as a general rule, we're able to generate more power on a road bike than a TT bike. I think it's due to being able to generate more power in the upright position than laid out in the aerobars. BUT...thanks to the aero advantage, less power will usually generate more speed, and besides leave your legs fresher for the run. So don't try to compare the two. IOW, for example, it might take 3.0 w/kg to go 20 miles in an hour on the road bike, and only 2.8 to go the same speed on the TT set-up (assuming your are positioned correctly)

    There will also be differences between the Quarq and the PT - heck, there probably are differences in individual units within the same brand. Meaning the exact same effort level might generate different power numbers between the Q and the PT. You can of course demonstrate this by putting those Q cranks on the TT bike, or the PT wheel on the road bike (assuming you have two different head units to record each separately.) So what you need to do is make sure you (a) are training on your TT bike enough and (b) know and use your TT bike power numbers for plotting race day strategy.  And for sure don't get into a competition with yourself and get all worked up over the different numbers you generate in the two different scenarios. It's like worrying about indoor vs outdoor watts, or comparing run to bike heart rates, or swim speed with or without a wet suit.

  • Dino, last year I did my OS on my road bike. When I got outside I switched to my TT bike and had a 20 watt drop in my numbers. I did not worry about it. I got my outdoor numbers and worked them. I had two great 70.3 placing 1st in my age group at one of them. Al is a very experienced athletes with tons of knowledge. He knows what he speaks off. Heed his advice.
  • Dino,

    What Al said. For you specifically, you definitely want to nail down your FTP on the tri bike. The best local TT route is to do 2 x 20 on the Santa Fe Dam, in the aerobars.

  • Absolutely agree w/ Al. It is now spring so time to focus on tri bike and get a FTP test on tri bike then use those numbers for your training. Of course you also want to make sure both units are calibrated too..

  • Agree with all that Al said. There is another variable that needs to be taken into account: the Quarq measures power at the crank and the PT measures it at the hub, so there will be differences, even with everything else being constant. From what I remember, crank numbers will be higher than hub numbers, but it shouldn't be 15 (or even 10%), more like 2-4%.
  • I'm not familiarwith the Quarq setup, but can you install it on your tri-bike while you have the powertap on to get real-time comparison between the two as a test, or will the wireless signals not both be accepted by the computer you are using?

    In the end, it is the power measurement you use while racing that matters, so Al's advice is the way to go, get your FTP on the tri-bike.
  • Posted By Brett Prince on 09 Apr 2012 11:19 AM

    I'm not familiarwith the Quarq setup, but can you install it on your tri-bike while you have the powertap on to get real-time comparison between the two as a test, or will the wireless signals not both be accepted by the computer you are using?



    In the end, it is the power measurement you use while racing that matters, so Al's advice is the way to go, get your FTP on the tri-bike.



    As far as I know, no head unit (Garmin, Joule, etc) will accept signals / record data from two powermeters at the same time. You would need to have two head units on the bike at the same time for this to work.

    Short answer is just ride the bike/PM that you're going to be racing exclusively, wrapping your head around those numbers.

  • Sadly, I could put the Powertap on the road bike with the Quarq crank and use the two head units I have - Garmin 500 and 910xt, but it is just too geekie. I would be fun for the theory, but I just can't bring my self to do it. Al's response was what I expected intuitively, difference in frame geometry, bikes and power meters would create the need for bike specific FTP's. Which is great! More testing..... image
  •  I just read a forum thread somewhere...either on Slowtwith or Competitive Cyclist(?) where someone did this...Quarq was consistently4-6 watts higher...which...there deduction was...made sense because there is no loss of power through the drive train when measured at the crank...in the end ...it was a wash...as long as consistency remains it didn't matter.

  • Posted By Dino Sarti on 15 Apr 2012 07:47 PM

    Sadly, I could put the Powertap on the road bike with the Quarq crank and use the two head units I have - Garmin 500 and 910xt, but it is just too geekie. I would be fun for the theory, but I just can't bring my self to do it. Al's response was what I expected intuitively, difference in frame geometry, bikes and power meters would create the need for bike specific FTP's. Which is great! More testing.....

    Dude, that would be awesome. I'd be really curious to see a power vs. speed profile on a trainer for both meters used at the same time. I suspect that one curve would be roughly a constant multiple of the other (say, around ~0.95), within suitable error bars. It would be a really great check for the consistancy and reliability of the power meters. 

  • +1 with everyone else about the watts being higher on the road bike. Some people have an inside/outside difference as well. Rich is right.

    The scientist in me will start using words like "calibration" and "small error in large number", but the bottom line is to get yourself calibrated into the FTP that comes up in your race-day bike setup and used it. All the bits about 5 watts here and there for different meters don't matter AS LONG AS your percentages are based off the same system you measured on and the meter isn't ridiculously wrong.
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