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Swim Form Help

To start with, it should be noted that I am a very slow swimmer.  My 1000 meter T test currently sits at around 26 mins after 7 weeks of FastCamp - down from 33 mins when I started.  I used (am still using) the position technique drills in the swim clinic eBook and have learned a lot.  But there is something that I cannot seem to 'fix' or 'figure out'. 

When doing the drills that use fins (right/left arm lead; single/triple switch), my shoulders seem to sink causing me problems with breathing.  After rotating my body as described in the drill, my shoulders sink and when I turn my head to breath, my entire head is under the water.  After turning, I either have to wait for my shoulders/head to rise or continue turning my head almost all the way around so that I am looking up at the bottom of the water line.  Needless to say, this is not a great feeling - turning to breath and then having to wait for your head to rise.  This often results in me raising my head to breath - not what I am supposed to do.  This then seems to compound the problem for my next rotation.

I have tried keeping my shoulders on the same plane but can't seem to do it.  I have made sure my 'trailing' arm isn't sticking out of the water.  I have ensured my 'leading' hand is extended straight out in front of me and not hanging down or pointing up. 

After doing these drills and getting an idea for how this feels, I have noticed that I also tend to do this during regular swimming as well although not as exagerated.  This isn't a good thing.  Any ideas??

Comments

  • Hi Greg,



    I think I've got an idea of what you're describing, it's not all that uncommon with these drills for people to struggle to keep their head from sinking under. Especially leaner (non-flotational) people who tend to sink to start with. As soon as you turn a body on their side in the water, they have a tendency to sink more than when they are flatter to the water.



    So my question for you in trying to solve this issue would be to try to just swim a one-arm stroke. The other arm is out in front of you, but you are not attempting to roll onto your side as in the "leading" drill. Does your head still sink? When you turn your head to breathe, are you trying to rotate it upward so that your entire mouth clears the water? Or are you trying to keep one goggle in the water and your head relatively flat, just turned toward the side? Many swimmers tend to over-rotate in an effort to get their entire mouth to the water, whereas most faster swimmers have gotten used to only getting part of their mouth out of the water, like this:

    If you are over-rotating your head to the air, you may also be picking it up, thus causing your hips to sink, thus pulling your head and shoulders downwards. The more we try to pick our head up toward the air, the more we end up sinking.

    In general, the leading and switch drills are not ones I use with swimmers for various reasons, this being one of them. Also, I don't see the on-side body position as being desirable to achieve during the regular swim stroke, where you want to keep your hips much more pointed toward the bottom of the pool than to the side. In swimming, if you keep the hips relatively stable, and reach out the gliding arm from the torso, you'll have some rotation of the torso to the side, but the stable hips will keep you from dipping down and under like you're describing here.

     

  • Thanks, Robin.  I'll give your suggestions a try, see what happens, and let you know.  I don't swim again until Friday. 

    As for breathing - I am probalby over rotating to get my entire mouth out of the water.  I know I should have part of my mouth submerged, but with my head already so low when I turn to begin with (where I am literally looking UP at the water surface), by the time my mouth gets there, it just 'pops' out. But it all starts with being down too low to begin with.  I can work on that as well.

    Another question though - anytime I am able to do the '1 goggle out' (more able to do during regular swimming than the drills), and my mouth is partially still in the water as in the picture, I tend to 'take in' a gulp of water.  This is not a pleasent experience nor something I want to do over and over for an entire event.  Any tips on keeping water out?

  • Posted By Greg Babb on 02 May 2012 07:10 AM

    Another question though - anytime I am able to do the '1 goggle out' (more able to do during regular swimming than the drills), and my mouth is partially still in the water as in the picture, I tend to 'take in' a gulp of water.  This is not a pleasent experience nor something I want to do over and over for an entire event.  Any tips on keeping water out?

    I hate to be the bearer of bad news (and I try not to think of this too much in the pool or open water) but swimmers generally have water going in and out of their mouth all the time when they breathe. So it's not so much the case that you will be keeping water out, as learning to live with water in your mouth when you breathe and with not breathing that water IN. I honestly can't tell you how it's done, but some combination of mouth and tongue position and possibly epiglottal control for all I know keeps the water out of the windpipe. Try this on land: take a half a mouthful of water and hold it in your mouth. Now breathe in and out. It's definitely possible, you can get comfortable with this feeling. In this case, I think it's something you just get better at as you swim more. But it's part of what makes swimming panic-inducing for many people, and that in case affects everything from body position to breath rate as they tense up and worry about breathing in water.

    It's for this reason that I tell parents not to worry about swim lessons, but just to go swim with their kids, every week if possible. People who learn to become comfortable in the water become good swimmers. The same advice is actually good for adults as well: go play in the water. Turn somersaults, do handstands, swim along the bottom, dive to the deep end, tread water. All of these help you get a feel for the water and to get comfortable with water in eyes, ears, mouth, etc.

    On the head sinking while breathing issue, I strongly suspect that something else is in play here. My suspicion would be that you are bending your legs too much while kicking, this is dragging your legs down and sinking your head/torso. It is also causing drag and potentially even fighting against your forward movement. Although triathletes don't need to kick much, they do need to have an efficient kick that is not costing them in terms of drag and downward momentum. If you want to post a video, I could tell you with much more accuracy what is going on.

  • Posted By Robin Clevenger on 02 May 2012 09:39 AM

    It's for this reason that I tell parents not to worry about swim lessons, but just to go swim with their kids, every week if possible. People who learn to become comfortable in the water become good swimmers. The same advice is actually good for adults as well: go play in the water. Turn somersaults, do handstands, swim along the bottom, dive to the deep end, tread water. All of these help you get a feel for the water and to get comfortable with water in eyes, ears, mouth, etc..



    Bingo - I couldn't agree more - Robin is talking about passage control. Being comfortable in the water by spending a lot of time immersed one way to get it. Also other water hobbies help too, SCUBA, (body, boogie board) surfing, diving, water skiing - the more exposure the better.

    One other thing to take away, being comfortable in the water is great, but always have respect for water, it weighs a lot and can produce an incredible amount of power.

  • My clinic folks will tell you about Alligator Breathing where you will take in some water with the air...swallow the air and spit the water out...very simple. To get air when on your side, your arm should be at about 4 or 8 oclock depending on your direction (not straight in front of you but actually down a bit) and you will actually need to press down on the water with your armpit to get you head up enough. Think of a kickboard...the more you push down the more it wants to come up....but lifting up will cause you to sink....also, you should have a small pocket if you tuck your chin a bit as you go to breathe...good luck!
  • Thanks all! I'll try all of the suggestions and keep at it. You all gave me a lot to consider!
  • @Patrick (could not figure out how to PM u) with respect to your comment above 'arm should be at 4 or 8 oclock) a rather embarrassing question, which arm would you be referring to?

  • Hey Greg,

    I am NOT a swim coach and I definitely don't play one on T.V. - but I AM a new swimmer (learned in February of 2010, managed to crank out 2.4 for IMLou in 2011) and I had a similar issue to yours. I can't speak in terms of technique, but I can tell you what finally clicked for me as far as the head rotation/lifting your head to breath thing. When I'm doing it "right" I noticed what I'm seeing is chest, chest, armpit, chest, chest, armpit (I breath bilaterally - so if you only breath right or left, it'd be chest, armpit, chest, armpit. Hopefully that makes sense. I'm realizing how ridiculous all of this sounds as I type, but at least I didn't type "boob, boob, armpit" which is what it really is... ). I realized if I was seeing my armpit when I took my breath, my head was in a much more optimal position and I wasn't craning my head up out of the water - my rhythm was much more smooth (unfortunately, I'm still slow... Meh. I'll take efficient for now!).

    Hope this is helpful (no really, I do. I'd hate to just have told all of EN that I stare at my boobs when I swim for no reason... ;-)

    Good luck!!!
    Jess
  • Jess - that almost sounds like you cram your chin into your 'chest' to accomplish that. Do your eyes really look 'down' towards your feet? I can't imagine giving up my black line that I have grown to love so much! image
  • Haha! Hmm... I DO swim with my head a lot lower in the water since adopting the Total Immersion style of swimming, but I should probably have clarified that the boobs (and probably the armpit, too) are more or less in the peripheral vision!
  • OK, so I'm slightly confused. I had a swim coach tell me that I breathe "late" and 'into my armpit", and that I should be breathing before my recovering arm is coming over my head. I didn't quite make sense of that, but it's one of the things I'm really struggling with, along with trying to slow my kick down and have a better catch.

    @Robin (or CoachP) - How does breath timing supposed to look in relation to arm motion?

    My frustration with my swimming is approaching combustible levels. I worked with a swim coach once/week for 8 weeks straight and while I feel a little bit smoother (longer glide, less stokes per length), my times are nowhere near improving. I'm still around a 1:00/50m swimmer. Hoping that persistence pays off soon!
  • Posted By Kori Martini on 15 May 2012 09:03 AM

    OK, so I'm slightly confused. I had a swim coach tell me that I breathe "late" and 'into my armpit", and that I should be breathing before my recovering arm is coming over my head. I didn't quite make sense of that, but it's one of the things I'm really struggling with, along with trying to slow my kick down and have a better catch.



    @Robin (or CoachP) - How does breath timing supposed to look in relation to arm motion?





    Hi Kori,

    Breathing and breath timing is one of the most frustrating things in swimming. As land mammals, we tend to do all sorts of things to get our heads to the air, most of them governed by ancient bodily instincts that (unfortunately) don't serve us well in swimming.

    In general, you want to breathe early in the stroke, as your coach says, before your recovering arm is coming around. Like this:

     

     

    There is a really good drill that will help you do this, called Shoulder Breathing. Basically you feel your shoulder touching your cheek as your hand extends into the glide, and then when your shoulder moves back with your stroking arm, your head goes with it. GoSwim.Tv has an excellent video with great underwater shots showing how this works:

    http://www.goswim.tv/entries/5829/freestyle---shoulder-breath.html

     

    If you watch this video several times and then go work with this drill in the pool, I think it will help with your breathing. Is your coach giving you specific drills to work on these things (kick timing, catch, etc.)?? I would suggest tackling one thing at a time, with targeted drills to help you out. When you've mastered that one change, then move on to changing something else. It's very hard while swimming to simultaneously work on your breathing, your kick, and your catch!!

     

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