don't buy into that. I don't think anyone in EN rides that much more than once in a while and probably part of a big bike training week. I don't think I've ever biked that far in a week and I think of myself as a pretty good biker.
A well-known volume fanatic for at least the last 15 years. However, note this quote from the end of the article:
"Many times age-groupers are not able to fit critical volume into their schedules from a logistics standpoint even if they can handle it from a physical stress standpoint. In these cases we must increase stress via intensity within the constraints of time available for training. " [Emphasis added]
Take yur pick - long lonely slogs on the bike vs the EN shorter time/high intensity efforts. My 2¢: If you MUST discover your volume limits, follow his advice to build slowly over the years, and then only within the context of Big Bike Weeks.
Also, stay tuned for part 2 of the article, in which he'll tell you that the Critical Volume (300-450 miles) need only be reached once in the final 6-8 weeks leading to an IM.
Anyone who works and has a family, errr, even a life, would have a hard time getting that volume in consistently.
There's only one way I'd shoot for 300 miles. On a rare occasion, I get a staycation while my wife still goes to work and the kids are in school. I've done this twice, TWICE, in the last 5 years. And I don't think it helped me that much.
EN's way is just a better use of my time. Now, if I was 23 and single and NEEDED to qualify for something, then maybe. But, not now, not in this reality.
Overall a good read and as Al highlighted the author had quoted his "but and what if's". Hope to see the part 2 article posted here for thoughts! I might be able to get into the 300 range, but then again I live in Kilometer world.
JK is Caitlin Snow's coach and he discussed the same theory in a recent article on how he's developed her over the past 5 years (can't recall which magazine it was in). So it appears to be the minimum level of biking for a pro. If I were retired, I would like to see what I could do with a 300 MPW average over a season ... perhaps in another life.
"Any discussion of how to train without defining the amount of time per week that the athlete has available to train is a dead end."
Or...
"Your training fits into the box that life gives you. What goes in the box is a function of the size of that box. What goes in my box is different from yours and if I advise you to jam my stuff into your box (that was awkward ) then I, as a coach, fundamentally do not understand how to coach age groupers."
People for whom endurance training and, in particular, high volume training is very much wrapped up with their identity as human beings really dig this message because it tells them what they want to hear: just sit on the bike and you'll get fast! Which you will no doubt. But put this article next to a similar one with his advice the run, the swim, how to schedule that training across the season and you'll see that it:
Is completely useless at best, dangerous at worse, for 99% of age groupers.
Is only realistic and doable for a very small segement of the sport. Specifically, I suspect, 23-31yo single people sleeping on mom's couch in the basement and playing Call of Duty when not training.
And so, surprise, you attract this exact athlete, for whom it works, and they do go fast because they've got nuthin' to do but train.
Patrick is local to Jesse, QT2 and his crew so it would be interesting to hear his take. I'm pretty sure he crushed them in the local indoor TT series on his OS 3-4hrs/wk of cycing to their 12+ on the trainer during the winter.
I've used QT2 info for a few years now to guide my half ironman (cut all the targets in half) preparation in the last 8 weeks before A-level half ironmans over the last 3 years.
This article is just a rehash of what I read 4-ish years ago re: critical volume, the final 7 weeks of training prior to IM, and the varying taper regimes based on weekly volume from 10-30hrs/wk. I have the webpages saved from a few years ago, a quick look on qt2systems.com didn't find them. Part 3 will probably show a run, then bike, then swim specific weeks in the final prep that provide a staggered taper (i.e., 4wks for run, 3 for bike, 2 for swim).
From personal experience, I found that critical volume wasn't very effective just hitting 200mpw once in 7-week leadup to race. It required more like 2 separate 4wk builds to that volume to show significant improvement over jumping in HIM on OS training.
Re: the indoor TT series, stated another way: the *only* thing this training regime *may* be useful for (for 5%) of the population is an ironman prep. I don't know about you, but I like to do well at sprint/oly/halfs/TT's/etc, and this is definitely of limited value there.
Finally, I've tried it with limited utility, and now I'm a Team EN member, that says a lot.
At my peak ironman training, with EN, I still usually ride more than the coaches suggest, such as:
T/W/Th: 30-36 miles each. Avg 2 hours each; total 6 hours. Sa: 100 miles, about 6 hours total. Su: 50 miles, about 2.5-3 hours. So, that's about 260 miles and about 15 hours total.
I work no more than 8 hours a day, am single and have no kids. In this aspect, I'd consider myself an outlier for an AGer with lots of time and resources.
Asking me for 50 more miles per week wouldn't be difficult for me to do. But to do it along with swimming and running, IM volumes, I would be broken down and in fetal position in my closet. And wouldn't be too much fun to be around, to say the least.
Hey don't kid yourselves both coach's practice do as I say not as I do! There was a thread on it last year documenting their volume. Not saying there is anything wrong with it just sayin! Yep is all about time , balance, and recovery. I like the saying there is no such thing as over training only under recovering!
Not that I would EVER say do as I do, but I comfortably finished IMSG and my total biking over the 6 weeks leading up to the race did not total 300 miles. Did not get a Kona slot, but how many do?
Hey don't kid yourselves both coach's practice do as I say not as I do! There was a thread on it last year documenting their volume. Not saying there is anything wrong with it just sayin! Yep is all about time , balance, and recovery. I like the saying there is no such thing as over training only under recovering!
Yep, but that's because my box is different from yours and I can cram more junk into it...errr....
I, personally, also like to do potentially stupid stuff to see what I can learn from it.
"I do stupid shit so you don't have to!"
Which is to say I've been in the trenches many, many times over the years of 300mi bike, 50mi run, 20-30hrs training weeks and am intimately familiar with the value of that AND the huge cost AND the tremendous amount of resources that have to go into putting it together. We're talking literally nothing but eat, sleep, and train.
That said, we as a team had some excellent discussions last year about the value of high volume training and it's application to the changing nature of the men's ~35-50 IM field.s In short, it appears that the very pointy end of the age groups are making some significant sacrifices and creating for themselves the perfect storm of endurance base + lifestyle + professional position + money + family, etc for about 2-3yrs to put up some serious training hours and get very, very fast.
Also note that all we've been talking about here is how his 1.whatever x the race distance formula prescribes cycling mileage. What about the run? The swim? Add that up, express it as hours, and:
You might as well be telling 99% of the people out there they need to train on the moon. It is just absolutely impossible for them to train that way.
There are MANY people, NOT training that way, racing right up there with the folks who do.
Finally, I want to make it clear that my thoughts are not EN vs Coaching Company X. It's just that I've been in the IM coaching game about as long as anyone and I've seen many, many discussions like this before. PnI have also, like I said, been in the trenches of every conceivable permutation of training week you can imagine and we apply that experience to your plans.
So I like to think that we start with the 95/95/95 solution (Cain 9/9/9 plan? ): the 95% solution that works for 95% of athletes 95% of the time. But we as coaches, and you as a team, have the experience and resources to intelligently advise the 5% how to do their 5% thing. That is, if you come to us and say you have a life that allows you put together several weeks north of 20hrs per week, PnI and step back and, with the help of several WSMs, have a very honest discussion with you about what you'll experience, the strengths, costs, pitfalls, ROI, etc of your situation...because we've done it before, many times.
Great discussion here folks. I respect Jesse and his approach, and it works for his athletes who can make that level of commitment. At awards at Texas today they had 6-7 AG podium finishers out of 15 total racers; they attract fast people looking to be even faster. I am not one to judge other people's decisions re training time / life priorities, etc, but I know that stuff wouldn't work for me.
Yes, I do train more than the average EN bear, but not by that much. Remember the world looks at RnI for performance/validation of our "authority" and we are also guinea pigs, experimenting on all things IM so you don't have to! For IMTX I averaged 12k swimming, I averaged about 40 miles of running and I alternated weeks of 250 miles with weeks of 160 miles.....so between 16 and 20 hours depending on the week. Still much less than what's prescribed in the article and no way I could sustain those volumes across all three sports (See the alternating bike week volumes, etc).
I do enjoy the volume pops of camps, and I recommend that to all our athletes - or at least the big bike / big tri weeks. At the end of the day my local buddy on QT2, looking to go pro one day, went 9:10 to my 9:27 (remember I lost 3' to a flat, so call it 9:24), is only a 14 minute difference. Two miles across 140.6, and he averaged 25 hours a week, with peaks near 40 hours. As in 4 x 6 hour rides during the week etc.
Results aside, I wil take my life with my family, and my priorities, any day. This is, after all, just one big game!
Comments
Fast before far. Works all the time
A well-known volume fanatic for at least the last 15 years. However, note this quote from the end of the article:
"Many times age-groupers are not able to fit critical volume into their schedules from a logistics standpoint even if they can handle it from a physical stress standpoint. In these cases we must increase stress via intensity within the constraints of time available for training. " [Emphasis added]
Take yur pick - long lonely slogs on the bike vs the EN shorter time/high intensity efforts. My 2¢: If you MUST discover your volume limits, follow his advice to build slowly over the years, and then only within the context of Big Bike Weeks.
Also, stay tuned for part 2 of the article, in which he'll tell you that the Critical Volume (300-450 miles) need only be reached once in the final 6-8 weeks leading to an IM.
Seems like that article is ultimately directed towards elite age-groupers & pros (probably 5% of their readership).
Anyone who works and has a family, errr, even a life, would have a hard time getting that volume in consistently.
There's only one way I'd shoot for 300 miles. On a rare occasion, I get a staycation while my wife still goes to work and the kids are in school. I've done this twice, TWICE, in the last 5 years. And I don't think it helped me that much.
EN's way is just a better use of my time. Now, if I was 23 and single and NEEDED to qualify for something, then maybe. But, not now, not in this reality.
"Any discussion of how to train without defining the amount of time per week that the athlete has available to train is a dead end."
Or...
"Your training fits into the box that life gives you. What goes in the box is a function of the size of that box. What goes in my box is different from yours and if I advise you to jam my stuff into your box (that was awkward
) then I, as a coach, fundamentally do not understand how to coach age groupers."
People for whom endurance training and, in particular, high volume training is very much wrapped up with their identity as human beings really dig this message because it tells them what they want to hear: just sit on the bike and you'll get fast! Which you will no doubt. But put this article next to a similar one with his advice the run, the swim, how to schedule that training across the season and you'll see that it:
And so, surprise, you attract this exact athlete, for whom it works, and they do go fast because they've got nuthin' to do but train.
Patrick is local to Jesse, QT2 and his crew so it would be interesting to hear his take. I'm pretty sure he crushed them in the local indoor TT series on his OS 3-4hrs/wk of cycing to their 12+ on the trainer during the winter.
This article is just a rehash of what I read 4-ish years ago re: critical volume, the final 7 weeks of training prior to IM, and the varying taper regimes based on weekly volume from 10-30hrs/wk. I have the webpages saved from a few years ago, a quick look on qt2systems.com didn't find them. Part 3 will probably show a run, then bike, then swim specific weeks in the final prep that provide a staggered taper (i.e., 4wks for run, 3 for bike, 2 for swim).
From personal experience, I found that critical volume wasn't very effective just hitting 200mpw once in 7-week leadup to race. It required more like 2 separate 4wk builds to that volume to show significant improvement over jumping in HIM on OS training.
Re: the indoor TT series, stated another way: the *only* thing this training regime *may* be useful for (for 5%) of the population is an ironman prep. I don't know about you, but I like to do well at sprint/oly/halfs/TT's/etc, and this is definitely of limited value there.
Finally, I've tried it with limited utility, and now I'm a Team EN member, that says a lot.
T/W/Th: 30-36 miles each. Avg 2 hours each; total 6 hours.
Sa: 100 miles, about 6 hours total.
Su: 50 miles, about 2.5-3 hours.
So, that's about 260 miles and about 15 hours total.
I work no more than 8 hours a day, am single and have no kids. In this aspect, I'd consider myself an outlier for an AGer with lots of time and resources.
Asking me for 50 more miles per week wouldn't be difficult for me to do. But to do it along with swimming and running, IM volumes, I would be broken down and in fetal position in my closet. And wouldn't be too much fun to be around, to say the least.
Yep, but that's because my box is different from yours and I can cram more junk into it...errr....
I, personally, also like to do potentially stupid stuff to see what I can learn from it.
"I do stupid shit so you don't have to!"
Which is to say I've been in the trenches many, many times over the years of 300mi bike, 50mi run, 20-30hrs training weeks and am intimately familiar with the value of that AND the huge cost AND the tremendous amount of resources that have to go into putting it together. We're talking literally nothing but eat, sleep, and train.
That said, we as a team had some excellent discussions last year about the value of high volume training and it's application to the changing nature of the men's ~35-50 IM field.s In short, it appears that the very pointy end of the age groups are making some significant sacrifices and creating for themselves the perfect storm of endurance base + lifestyle + professional position + money + family, etc for about 2-3yrs to put up some serious training hours and get very, very fast.
Also note that all we've been talking about here is how his 1.whatever x the race distance formula prescribes cycling mileage. What about the run? The swim? Add that up, express it as hours, and:
Finally, I want to make it clear that my thoughts are not EN vs Coaching Company X. It's just that I've been in the IM coaching game about as long as anyone and I've seen many, many discussions like this before. PnI have also, like I said, been in the trenches of every conceivable permutation of training week you can imagine and we apply that experience to your plans.
So I like to think that we start with the 95/95/95 solution (Cain 9/9/9 plan?
): the 95% solution that works for 95% of athletes 95% of the time. But we as coaches, and you as a team, have the experience and resources to intelligently advise the 5% how to do their 5% thing. That is, if you come to us and say you have a life that allows you put together several weeks north of 20hrs per week, PnI and step back and, with the help of several WSMs, have a very honest discussion with you about what you'll experience, the strengths, costs, pitfalls, ROI, etc of your situation...because we've done it before, many times.
Yes, I do train more than the average EN bear, but not by that much. Remember the world looks at RnI for performance/validation of our "authority" and we are also guinea pigs, experimenting on all things IM so you don't have to! For IMTX I averaged 12k swimming, I averaged about 40 miles of running and I alternated weeks of 250 miles with weeks of 160 miles.....so between 16 and 20 hours depending on the week. Still much less than what's prescribed in the article and no way I could sustain those volumes across all three sports (See the alternating bike week volumes, etc).
I do enjoy the volume pops of camps, and I recommend that to all our athletes - or at least the big bike / big tri weeks. At the end of the day my local buddy on QT2, looking to go pro one day, went 9:10 to my 9:27 (remember I lost 3' to a flat, so call it 9:24), is only a 14 minute difference. Two miles across 140.6, and he averaged 25 hours a week, with peaks near 40 hours. As in 4 x 6 hour rides during the week etc.
Results aside, I wil take my life with my family, and my priorities, any day. This is, after all, just one big game!