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Swimming & Hammys

Folks, anyone get sore hammys when doing alot of kicking drills?  It seems whenever I start swimming each Spring, or last fall when I did 30 miles in 30 day thingy, my hammys can't handle it, even moreso if I'm running and biking.  Now I only do kicking drills to improve my body position in the water, not really for propulsion (I wish).  I am pretty much a 100% pull swimmer.  I'm a 1:10 - 1:15 IM swimmer (w/wetsuit).  Just wondering if this is just due to weak/tight  hammys - never been a good kicker, even in my early teen swim days,  which was a long time ago.  Or could it be a form related thing.  I do have strong hamstrings when I do land excercises?  Maybe its something I just need to work on in offseason when not also runnng / biking alot.  Any thoughts?  Cause at this point in training, I don't need sore hammys!

Thanks.

 

 

Comments

  • I find that my hammys stretch when I'm doing flip turns. I'm the same speed as you in a wetsuit, but do not have a swimming background, so really have no idea what I'm doing. I just get in & swim. Interested to see some comments here...
  • Saw this on a total immersion swim forum with regards to your question Pete.

    Check your movement and your use of the hamstrings. You might be activating your hamstrings as you kick down in an extra effort to keep your knee straight. Your quadriceps can do that job just fine. You might be using the hamstrings on the upswing of the kick -- you need to use them a little but for the most part you can really use the rotation of the hips to let them float up.

    Here is a site for strengthening the legs for swimming. http://saycoperformance.com/blog/uncategorized/a-look-at-land-exercise-for-swim-kicking/

    Hope this helps.
  • My best guess is that it's a form related thing. Hamstrings are primarily muscles used in the straightening/bending of the knee, which you don't want to do a lot of in kicking (although a small amount is natural). Quite possibly (especially as you say you are not a good kicker), you are overbending the knee (also known as "bicycling" or "runner's kick) when you kick.

    Try this: stand on one foot, holding onto the back of a chair or a railing for support. Swing the leg you're not standing on back and forth. The muscles that you use to do this are the primary muscles used in the kick - some quads and hamstrings, but a lot of glutes and hips. To kick correctly, you will be moving your leg back and forth, while keeping loose supple ankles and loose knees. You kick from the hips, not from the knees, and the power of the kick is expressed out through the leg and foot - like cracking a whip. This is more exaggerated and visible in the butterfly kick, but is still present in the freestyle kick.
  • Robin knows her shit, so listen Pete.
  • And maybe you are doing too many kicking drills.

    Minimal part of my workouts if at all.

  • Hamstrings are two joint muscles. They cross the knee and the hips. The primary actions of the hamstrings are to flex the knee and extend the hip. If your trunk is fixed, as would be if holding onto a kickboard, your glutes and hamstrings are doing a lot of work. Hamstrings are also antagonist muscles to the quadriceps to help decelerate knee extension. Dottie's flip turns propelling off the wall, her hamstrings are decelerating her knee extension (working eccentrically).

    Am I wrong that focusing on kicking and doing kick drills is not a great idea? We don't kick that much with a wetsuit. We should spend our time pulling and working on form?
  • Posted By Lisa Cheney on 16 May 2012 08:56 PM



    Am I wrong that focusing on kicking and doing kick drills is not a great idea? We don't kick that much with a wetsuit. We should spend our time pulling and working on form?



    That depends on how good your kicking form is already. I think that most triathletes are underkickers, and it's a mistake to think that you shouldn't be kicking with a wetsuit on. Watch the good pros in the water, they kick. A lot. I have yet to meet a good swimmer who is not a good kicker, so getting (and keeping) good kicking form is, in my mind, one of the essentials to having a good stroke.

    A good solid kick:

    - Keeps your feet high on the surface of the water (you may think the wetsuit does that for you, but I've watched enough triathletes swim in wetsuits to know that isn't true

    - Provides some propulsion

    - DOES NOT PROVIDE DRAG (most important, and the thing many triathletes get wrong)

    - Stabilizes the hips and facilitates the proper rotation of the upper body, thus allowing the swimmer to swim with their torso and back muscles, and not just their arm muscles (many triathletes swim "flat)

     Watch this video of Pro triathlete Scott Neyedli and check out his kick. I bet he's done some kicking drills in his time!

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND1L8I2ZY5w

    So in my mind, the proper focus for kicking drills for a triathlete is to enable them to kick with good form. If you're just going along repeating your same old drag-inducing bicycle-style kick, then no, you shouldn't be doing that. But if you're spending the time to work on good kicking form with targeted drills, it's absolutely a net positive for your stroke.

  • Hey Pete,

    Funny you should mention that - I was just chatting with my friend/Total Immersion coach the other day... she has a hamstring injury was saying that kicking has been aggravating it, so she's been doing a lot of backstroke lately b/c it's a totally different kick. Sorry - not very helpful, but always good to know you're not alone! ;-)
  • thanks all, good stuff. Believe me I don't do many kicking drills - maybe 500 meters at most in any session and w/small fins (I practically go nowhere if I don't use fins). But I know its a weak area. I am faster w/a pull bouy then w/o - which I don't think is a good thing. Obvioiusly my kicking weakness gets masked abit w/a wetsuit and I may do 1 or 2 short races where there is no wet-suit. But like Robin says, having better kicking form can only make me a faster swimmer even if I don't get much propulsion out of it.

    I do think I activate my hamstrings too much (in my failed attempt to activate my hips) and in trying to keep my knees stable and my lower body in line. I don't think I overbend the knees - if anything I feel too rigid thru the hips & upper legs. I feel like I need to bend the knees more if I want to ever feel that ankle snapping down in the water (the "whip"). But then I increase drag. In the video that Robin provided, I was surprised at the amount of hip rotation of the pro. I just don't feel that proper connection between upper and lower body - they are not in sync - so I increase drag when I try to get legs involved too much. So I think I just try to minimize the leg drag more than anything by doing very little. I do remember a coach informally telling me a few years back that I need to be more flexible in the water, more-fish like w/my lower body.

    I should've gone to coach P's swim clinic....and got a video...that would be helpful....next time

    Anyway, after 4 miles of running this morning my hammys started their slow burn - so - its all about recovery now. No kicking drills for me - lots of pulling, if anything. But I would like to resolve/improve this eventually.

    Thanks everyone.
    And yes B - when it comes to swimming I'll take marching orders from just about anyone....image
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