Race averages vs. zone targets-real examples??
Question: We all have our zones that help us with strategies for IM and HIM. We hope for an avg run pace of EP(1) for IM, correct? I know we go slower first 6 miles, etc, but in the end, the goal is an avg pace per mile of EP, correct? And, for HIM an avg pace/mile of MP(2), correct? My question is, how many of you really do hit that? If not, what is most typical? Like, Patrick-for your 3:15 IMTX marathon, was your avg pace/mile=to your EP? I'd really like to know if it plays out that way for most??
Examples from IM, HIM or stand-alone results vs. zones??
0
Comments
What I have actually been able to run is around 9:20 mins/mile, but that may be because of bike execution or the terrain or heat.
The IM paces given are 75% to 80% of FTP, but I don't have any IM run data yet.
IMLOU EP 8:49 actual pace 9:19 (EP+30 sec) heat calc est was for 10:08 fairly close to EP considering heat
IMFL EP 8:49 actual pace 9:09 (EP+20sec) heat was not a factor but pee stops were so again pretty close
Mooseman HIM MP 7:32 actual pace 8:02 (MP+30sec) first race of the year and was very happy with 8 cant imagine 7:30 but ya never know
Lobsterman OLY HMP 7:14 actual pace 7:20 2 weeks after IMLOU and closest to estimated pace
So no I didnt hit those paces last year. VDOT closer to 51 this year and the numbers I am looking at are scaring me.
Once the race day temp is taken into consideration, my IM run paces between 2005-2010 were generally within 0.0X min/mile of predicted. Bear in mind that, unless the temp is 60F or below, you will not be able to hit the paces predicted by your VDOT. Also, another stipulation for many of us is we use a training VDOT based on 5K test, and a racing VDOT based on a half marathon time. Usually, the HM based VDOT will be lower.
Conclusion ... It IS possible to race an IM at the pace prescribed, after accounting for temp, and using a lowr VDOT than 5K test.
So for Quassy I think I am going to use my 5k vDot, and an IF of 88% to play it safe. I can always kill it in the last few miles if I played it too safe - would rather do that than blow up. I think that pace seems doable given my last race rehearsal, and definitely more doable than the MP from my current 5k vDot, and even the MP of my current 5k vDot minus two points. If it's hotter than 60, I'll adjust and keep an eye on heart rate so that I don't overdo it.
Dottie-
Last year, I ran a free-standing half marathon in 1:29, and two HIM half-marathons at 1:36 and 1:31. My marathon PR is from a couple years back at 3:16. In both those races, my run was the fastest (relatively speaking) of my three events.
We are all different, but I find that the MP is usually VERY easy at the beginning of the HIM run and then gets hard for the last 3 mi. So, for me, rather than ACTUALLY running 30 sec slower than MP, I run the whole thing very close to a flat pace with the PE following what we recommend. I am not saying that's what you should do...but it's what has worked for me.
I have not been as successful at the IM distance yet. Last year, I misunderestimated (to use the common term...) the temp at the beginning of WI and paid the price due to starting out too close to my non-temp-modified EP.
Wm
All that said, in my 4 years of racing, I think I've only had 1 long course event where I actually hit my projected pacing based off of a 5K vdot test, and that was a basically a pancake flat course (Racine 70.3). So of reiterates to me that a VDOT projection for pacing either needs to be established through a test that is more similar to the event that you will be racing (e.g, not a flat ideal conditions 5k if you are going to be racing a hot hilly run), or you need to adjust your ideal VDOT based pace out using the tools available and your own experience.
@Trevor - a little clarification on what vDot to enter the charts with from the coaches might be useful.
@Jim
This may not be the coach approved strategy, but I tend to be generous with my VDOTs that I enter into the tool throughout my training. That is to say, I'll enter my VDOT based off of a flat 5K and use that for training because I know it represents a theoretical higher end limit and I'm trying to push myself in training. Same with FTP, I personally believe that the prescribed 42' test can tangibly overestimate true FTP, i.e. I just don't think most people really could hold their 42' derived FTP for a full 60 mins, but I'll still enter that and push for that in training because I'm trying work hard and get stronger.
Now when it comes to racing, I'm a bit more conservative. For the run, there's the heat pace caclulator that I would definitely take into consideration, and unfortunately the rest is subjective based on experience from paces I've been able to hold in longer runs in training and perceived exertion, so not really great standalone advice I can offer to others. So I won't ever actually enter a new VDOT, but I'll still go into the race with a pace in my mind that I think is a bit more realistic than the pure VDOT based one.
For the bike, same story. I'll leave my FTP as it is, but refer to the HIM/IM bike pacing tables and just scale back the %FTP as needed or depending on the terrain. For example, I can race a flat course like Racine at 85% FTP and still run well, but as I learned the hard way this year, I have to dial that % back on the bike to setup for a run like WIldflower (also depdendent on where my run fitness is at).
Putting on my pretend coach hat, I'll qoute "This is why we do 2 race rehersals, one to screw it up, and one to correct those mistakes". I'd certainly like to race as fast as possible, so ideally I want to race at my ideal VDOT / FTP prescribed paces. My first race rehersal, if done on a similiar course with similar conditions (not that you always have control over that), should be my first wake up call on whether or not that is realistic.
If you should find that first race rehersal to not go as well as expected, you have your second to dial back the paces and give it another shot. Unfortunately, I personally, and I suspect many others, have had some cases where both rehersals go poorly, yet somehow still head into the race with with a pacing plan that didn't work for me twice before, but I somehow expect it's going to work this time. Of course, it very well may work that third time, being tapered can make quite the difference, but I'd be far happier to arrive on the run and realize I have extra oomph in the tank than the far more common "oh no, what have I done??".
Alas, I'm still basically a punk kid and a newbie when it comes to this sport, yet somehow I've become way too leinent in my discipline of actually doing both my rehersals, doing them right, or doing them at all. When it comes to the half distance, I sort of convinced myself "I don't need a rehersal to tell me what racing a half is like, I've done that enough times to know for myself". Yet I still blow it on occasion, somtimes big time. So there goes that argument and back to RRs it is.
Not to beat a dead horse, but there seems to be two ways to approach this. A common theme here is to lower your 5k vDot by a couple of points or so, and use those paces for HIM/IM distance pacing targets. The other is the long run execution pack - which contains a table that explicitly starts with your 5K vDot, and then provides race paces by scaling back the 5K paces by some percentage based on run training, race rehearsals, recent long race experience, etc.
That PDF states that the 5K vDot provides a benchmark for fitness and training, but does not define your race pace.