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The "Big Bike / Big Tri Week" Thread

Team,

Lots of chatter recently about all things Big Bike / Big Tri Week:

  • When to schedule?
  • How to structure?
  • Check out my proposed BBW / BTW, let me know what you think

And other stuff like that. So the intent of this thread is to consolidate all of those discussions and questions into one place where everyone can find them and we can all learn together.

Please use this thread to ask all questions Big Bike Week and Big Tri Week related.

For now we'll allow athletes to talk to other athletes in this thread (ie, not Coach / OP only conversations like the Micro and Macro Threads) but please keep the conversations very focused, very on topic, etc. Remember, we are all creating a learning resource together.

But before we begin

STOP -- and read these three wiki posts:

RnP Podcast -- High Volume Training Weeks for the TeamEN athlete: Coming Soon

Patrick and I will discuss fitness requirements, performance gain expectations, ROI for admin and time costs expended, the psychology of triathletes, and more.

In the meantime:

Rich's Notes:

  • Scheduling and executing a Big Bike or Big Tri Week is a nice to have, NOT a must have. I'm getting the vibe from questions being asked in the Macro Thread and elsewhere that many EN athletes feel these tools are a necessary wicket they need to hit before their goal race, especially Ironman. This is NOT the case! The EN plans, untouched, are perfectly fine.
  • First and foremost, you should view these as just a cool thing to do with your fitness. Go _that_ way, a long time, day after day, and exiting with a great experience and bragging rights. Bonus if you can get it done, but no worries if you can't. Again...extra credit!
  • Scheduling: generally, closer to your race is better, so you have time to absorb the training, improve your fitness, and carry it through your race. However, you want to keep them away from your final race rehearsal. Your final race rehearsal is your single most important training event and it is where it is on the schedule for a reason. So take a look at your training plan, determine the date of your final RR, and the last day of your high volume training week should be no closer than 7 days before this final RR date.
  • Beyond this RR-line-in-the-sand date above, admin considerations take priority over training, coachy-coachy considerations about fitness gains, etc. That is, the best time to do these, IF your life allows you to do these, is when your life says is the right time.

 

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Comments

  • The broader picture here is just the fear we have as coaches when we publish something that's either NEW, COOL or EXTREME. It's flashy. It's shiny. You want it and it's an impulse control issue, or a lemming following the others issue. Instead, we'd like you to consider it, for sure, but do so within the context of your life situation, your goals and then finally the potential upside. In that order.

    Life Situation -- Can I make a big bike or big tri week work and still:
    * sleep 8 hours a night
    * not impact my family adversely
    * not impact my job adversely
    * or some deadly combination of the three

    Your Goals -- Do you need this week to accomplish what you want to accomplish on race day?
    * is your cycling or overall fitness too low for your goals and you need a bump?
    * did you miss a portion of your OS or are making up for lost time?
    * does it matter if you ride 15 minutes faster or not on race day?

    Potential Gains -- Everyone handles volume differently. You need to know:
    * Can you handle the training load as compared to what you have been doing?
    * Will you be able to take time off to absorb it?
    * Will this complement your existing fitness or is this a last-ditch attempt to save your season?
  • Having done probably close to 30 BBW/BTW's over the past 18 years, I feel compelled to share my own observations and experience with this training modality.

    Why? For me, this is my lifestyle choice. I was doing multi-day bike trips and training vacations before I ever did any triathlons, so incorporating the idea of a BBW or a BTW into my training was natural. For someone new to the experience, I would hope the primary reason would be to have fun, to turn something you're going to do anyway - training - into something novel, to invigorate and energize an activity which can easily become repetitive and daunting into something you look forward to. Gaining a fitness boost is a bonus, in my view.

    When to do it? Any time, really. I once did a BBW - a week long bike trip of 450 miles in the Canadian Rockies with friends - a week before an HIM, and got a PR at that race. But my conclusion as to the best times in relation to an IM: just before the start of the 12 week final build, and/or a Big block finishing up with one of the two race rehearsals.

    How long? Again, no rules. Anywhere from a weekend to two weeks + counts as a BTW for me. But the longer I go, the more focussed I must be - anything over 4-5 days requires dedicated time off, manic devotion to nutrition and rest, and minimal extraneous distractions.

    How much? Here, I've learned that doubling the distance and/or TSS of the immediately preceeding weeks is about my max. Meaning, if you want to go 500 miles in a week, it's a good idea to have a 200-250 mile week under your belt within the preceeding 2 weeks. Or, if you want to hit a 1400 TSS, average 6-700 for 2 out of the preceeding 3 weeks (for times other than a week, translate that to CTL, which is TSS/day)

    Where? Anywhere can be a BTW or BBW. A point-to-point trip, like to Tour of California or Blue Ridge Parkway EN ventures. A destination vacation, like Hawaii or Mallorca. Daily trips from the house. A weekend stay at a state park with a lake. Etc, etc. The main thing is, it should be FUN, not just a harder round of training. And finding people to do at least parts of it with certainly enhances the fun.

  • Question: I am planning a BBW or BTW for the weekend of my first RR for IMMT, is this too close? or a good point? where in the week (it will be 4-5 days total, should i put the RR day?
  • Posted By Scott Dinhofer on 31 May 2012 05:32 AM

    Question: I am planning a BBW or BTW for the weekend of my first RR for IMMT, is this too close? or a good point? where in the week (it will be 4-5 days total, should i put the RR day?

     

    Timing is fine, do the RR near the front end of the week.

  • I'm in the midst of a 6-day BBW which will end with a 100 mile ride (Sat) and a 50 mile ride (Sun).  No issues so far...going great.  Question is:  do I need to modify my plan for the following week (next week)?  Here's how it looks beginning tomorrow:

    Friday - BBW (off)

    Sat - BBW (100 miles)

    Sun BBW (50 miles)

    Mon - Run 3 x 1 mile repeats + Swim

    Tue - Swim

    Wed - Bike VO2 max (8' ON time)

    Thur - Long run (135' race pace)

    Fri - Run 40' + Race Rehearsal Swim

    Sat - Race Rehearsal Bike + Run

    Sun - OFF

    The RR next week works great with my schedule so I'd rather not push it.  Honestly the only workout I'm concerned with are the mile repeats on Monday (the day after my last BBW ride).  What's the best way to ease back into training?

  • Mac, suggest you switch Monday and Tuesday, moving that run to Tuesday
  • So I'm getting close to IMLP...and unfortunately, was not able to get in some of the hours I would've liked the past month or so, so I'm going to throw in a BBW next week (Week 15 of 20 for Int Ironman Plan). Still 2 weeks before last RR-so I'm thinking I'll have the time to recover still and get a few last volume weeks in. Plan is:

    Monday- Bike 80 mi
    Tuesday- Bike 40 mi (Also swim ~3000, run ~3 miles)
    Wednesday- Bike 100 mi
    Thursday- Long run (2.5 hrs)
    Friday- Bike 30 mi (Also swim ~3000, run ~3)
    Saturday- Bike 70 mi
    Sunday- OFF

    Then I'm assuming off Monday as well, Tuesday a swim, easy ride Wednesday and back to the plan that Thursday with a long run.

    Any advice would be great. Thanks!
  • @Lauren,I'd make Friday Swim only, putting the run after saturday's ride...you can spin the 30 on Sunday if you want, but you'll need a break after the 100 ride / long run!
  • I have  two approaches under  consideration;

    Weekend version: So what would a Big Bike Weekend look like? Lets say I had Friday Afternoon, Saturday, Sunday and Half Day Monday?

    Weeklong commuting version: I have a 30mile (one way) commute which I have been doing about once per week (usually do my 90 bike/FTP ride on one of the legs)...how might I use this to build a big bike week?

     

    Thanks for any suggestions/guidance.

     

  • Hi,



    I'm doing a BBW next week. I'm in week 10 of HIM Intermediate. My target for mileage is below. Taking Friday off because of small claims court thing I need to be present for.





    "Sunday Day 1: 40 miles"

    "Monday Day 2: 53 miles"

    "Tuesday Day 3: 53 miles"

    "Wednesday Day 4: 33miles"

    "Thursday Day 5: 53 miles"

    "Friday Day 6: Off "

    "Saturday: Day 7: 66 miles"

    "Sunday - REST"



    How does the above look?



    My Saturday (tomorrow) HIM week 10 workout calls for 180 min bike workout and 30 min run. Should I still do that as written or modify? Might be too late to get feedback as this is starting this weekend, but thought I'd try. I'm thinking of just doing the Sat workout as planned since Sunday is kind of an easy ride.



    Thanks in advance!



    Enrique

  • Coaches,

    (by the way, congrats Patrick on your win in TX and congrats to Rich for your return to the pool!)

    I am recovering from my BBW and am psyched with the progress I made during the week.  My question is:  after my Vinman Ironman (July 28), would it be advantageous to schedule another BBW sometime during the 3 months leading up to Beach to Battleship for some added bike fitness (my weakest sport)?  I figured I'd take 3 wks to recover from Vineman followed by a BBW and then settle into the IM plan.  Is that cool...or is it not advisable to do more than one BBW per season?  Thanks!

  • Here are some of my thoughts and observations from my first BBW from a few months ago:


    • I did my BBW through a cycling camp, and it was very, very valuable having the company of other riders/coaches who can share their knowledge and experience. Got to explore a part of SoCal (around Temecula) that I've never ridden before. I think the key to having a successful and sustainable BBW is to keep things fun and interesting. No way would I have been able to log so many miles if I rode alone. 
    • I noticed a lot of the other riders were really hammering the hills. This was most evident in how they would hammer the start of a climb and slow waaaay down later. I did my best to pace myself evenly on these climbs (low Z3 in terms of power), and I ended up passing a lot of these folks near mid-climb.
    • Since so much time is being spent in the saddle, this is a very valuable time to dial-in issues with fit, equipment, nutrition, etc. I took this opportunity to get a very good sense of doings things like how to dress, how to feed/hydrate, etc.
    • I was very diligent in doing stuff like getting enough sleep, fueling myself pre/post-ride, etc. Small things like that add up over the week and really pay off. That, combined with my steady riding and pacing, kept me really strong throughout the week. The riders and coaches were all commenting on how strong I was and how I made the climbs and miles look effortless. Pretty big compliment coming from folks who were a lot stronger and more experienced than I was. In reality though, I was just good at managing and looking after myself.
    • No running (or swimming). It's called a BBW for a reason. Just no point in running on tired legs and digging myself into more fatigue.
    • All of my calories were through bottles of Infinit. 1 bottle with ~220 cal per hour. Stupidly simple to manage. No bonking or GI issues. We had a SAG vehicle following us (yet another plus of doing a BBW through a camp!), so refilling bottles with water wasn’t a problem.
    • There is definitely an exponentially increasing mental cost to spending long hours on a bike. At one point I considering adding on a 6th day by going on a Saturday ride with my tri club. Physically I felt I could have handled it, but I was mentally spent by the end of the week.
    • Forced myself to take three days of recovery afterwards. Again, no point training through massive fatigue. Chose to recover *hard* instead. 

     

  • @Joe:
    • Friday: 3hrs
    • Saturday: 4hrs
    • Sunday: 4hrs
    • Monday: 2-3hrs
    In my experience, 3-4hrs per day is repeatable for several days. But a day over 5hrs can really impact the following days. So a safe bet is to stay in that 3-4hr range, which can also accommodate an easily 3-4 mile run, with some strides, before each of those rides.

    @Enrique, yep, that looks good.

    @Mac: you'll be fine, though the value of the BBW is greater if you do it closer to your race. If it were me, I don't think I'd want to go from a 3wks of post IM transition to a BBW. I generally really dislike that 3-4wk period after a long lay off where my power and RPE are all out of whack and below my season peaks.

    @Anson: very good tips, thanks! I can do this stuff solo but I prefer to do it with other people (hard to arrange) but I really like to go someplace else and ride new or interesting terrain. I've been riding in the SGV and mountains for 12yrs so it can get more than a little old when solo. Bishop, CA makes and awesome basecamp location.
  • Big Bike Weekend for me this week. I commute 40 miles each way to/from work on Fridays in the summer. Then, I have a 60 mile group ride with my cycling team on Sat. morning. AND... gonna cap it off with a Father's Day century ride. 240 miles in 3 days.

    Maybe I'll take Monday off. image
  • So all things being equals, in general, what weeks before an IM is it best to do a Big Bike Week..
  • Posted By Michael Johnson on 17 Jun 2012 12:54 PM

    So all things being equals, in general, what weeks before an IM is it best to do a Big Bike Week..



    My 2 ¢: week 13 to go, and again week 5 to go (as a Big Tri Week).

  • Recovery for BBW question-I did the work, now I want to make sure I recover appropriately. I did a total of 335 miles on the bike this past week and roughly 30 miles of running. My last ride was Saturday (yesterday). So I took today off (Sunday), plan to take tomorrow of as well (Monday)...should I aim to swim Tuesday and then get back on the plan with the scheduled bike/run Wednesday? IS that enough time off, too much, not enough? Thanks!
  • @Lynne: you "should" be able to see the RR's down near the bottom of your training plan page, in that Macro level view / table? Your final RR is 4wks out so anything that deconflicts with that is fine.

    @MJ: what Al said.

    @Lauren: NICE WORK!! Recommend you swim only through Wednesday, then see how you feel on Thursday. Plan to not do the long run on Thursday, rolling that to Sunday instead. You will likely feel flat and "puffy legs" through Friday. You mission: get back on track by the weekend, so that you're weekend = the scheduled Saturday ride and the Thurs long run, moved to Sunday. Everything else you do / don't do during the week should support ^that^
  • Coach R- So I swam only until Wednesday (after my BBW) then today I did a swim with a Z1 5 mile run...and I felt like absolute crap during the run-like legs had nothing to give. Is this normal? Or should I be a bit worried that I still feel that tired? Tomorrow Im planning to just swim again to prep for the long ride Sat/long run Sun...Thanks
  • I'm planning on doing a BBW. With my schedule I have 2 options. I'm still racing 2 more HIM's before my last 12 week build to IMFL, which's my "A" race. I can put a BBW in 15 weeks before IMFL (which would also be 2 weeks after my 3rd HIM and give me 1 week recovery/taper before my final HIM, which's also a soft "A" race)
    OR
    A BBW 11 weeks before IMFL (which would begin 1 week after my final HIM)
    In the end I'm looking for the best fitness to bring to IMFL, all the HIM's are pretty much RR's/hard training days for me.
    So BBW... 15 or 11 weeks before IMFL? I fall 2 wks on either side of the suggested 13 weeks. Any insights appreciated!
    Thx.
  •  Hi Coaches,

    Please take a look and make any recommendations for my Big Bike Week I have planned.  My HIM is early September with a few sprint distance triathlons in between and one hill climb race.  Reading the Big Bike Plan, it mentions intermediate do 2/3 of the volume, does this apply for HIM intermediate.  Believe I can do more than the 2/3 of the volume, but not sure it that makes sense to add the miles?

    Here are my thoughts based on 2/3 of the volume listed, will increase if you think it will be beneficial. 

    Friday, June 27th 45 miles

    Sat. 55-60 miles

    Sun 55-60 miles

    Monday NO access to bike traveling all day can Run, thought I would do my Tuesday run workout 60 minutes with 3x1' at TP or should I just run easy?

    Tuesday 55-60 miles

    Wednesday 70 miles

    Thanks!

    Christine

  •  So during  Big Tri Week....do all the workouts need to be done as bricks?

  • Sorry I missed these!

    @Lauren: yep, normal, and is why these things are OPTIONAL!! :-)

    @Sukhi: closer to IMFL will do you more good on race day, as long as it's done about 1-2wks before your final race rehearsal. So, having said that, 11 and 15wks out equally good, but would better if done closer to the race.

    @Christine: I think that's a good plan

    @Joe: no, I would get the runs in first before my ride.
  • Thanks Rich! I'm booking vacation time around these weeks to get the training in. In the Adv. IM Plan it suggests a Big Tri Week during week 11/20. If I did that can I also do a Big Bike Bike Week at week 15/20? And then my last RR would be week 17/20.

    My bike is what's suffering most as a triathlete so I know I NEED to do a big bike week and would like to know your thoughts if the above plan is what would help me that much more for IMFL or if I'm biting off more than I should chew?

    Thx!
  • 1.What about the week after the BBW or BTW.......is it back to regular hours or decreased hours (to recover)?

    2. Do you RUN or SWIM during the 5 days of the BBW?

  • A Coach R, curious if there should be a "plan" for the week after?

    also, here is the big bike week i just completed yesterday, thinking about tossing in another effort today... any comments on how you would have structured this differently? The lower mileages on day1 wasnt planned, just happened that way.

     

                             Miles    Elevation   TSS

    Tuesday           35          2865        157

    Wednesday     57          3505        183 (Timberman HIM course)

    Thursday          55          4513        196

    Friday                82          4822        270

    Saturday          33           2656        136

    TOTALS          263        18361        941

    Additonal Workouts

    Tuesday  3 Mile Brick

    Wednesday 5 Mile Run prior to bike

    Thursday 1.7 OWS

  • I just did a Big Tri Week (incl my RR#1 and week 15 of the IM Advanced Plan for IMNYC) and thought I'd share.  I'm gonna dial it back a little this week, but not much different than a "normal" training week.  I actually feel pretty good.  I ate pretty well and slept a lot during the past week which I think helped.  I felt it more during my long run than on the bike (maybe because it was 80 and very humid at 5AM during my Thursday long run).  I think the 2 full rest days (Sun and Fri) also helped.  I neglected swimming mostly because I just didn't have time during the week.  I might swim and extra time or two this week to help with leg recovery and help with the swimming as well.

    Total Hours:  ~29           Total Miles:  ~379


        Hours       Miles      
      Swim Bike Run   Swim Bike Run    Bike Elevation
    Sat    - 6 1      - 113 6.2                 5,062
    Sun    - - -      - - -                     - 
    Mon  0.75 - 1    1.5 - 5.5                     - 
    Tue    - 3.75 0.75      - 53 4.5                 4,352
    Wed    - 4.5 -      - 67 -                 4,767
    Thu    - - 2.5      - - 15                     - 
    Fri    - - -      - - -                     - 
    Sat    - 4 0.5      - 58 3.2                 5,365
    Sun    - 3.5 0.65      - 48 4.2                 4,623
    Totals:  0.75 21.75 11)" style="border-right: windowtext 0.5pt solid; border-top: #d4d0c8; border-left: #d4d0c8; border-bottom: windowtext 0.5pt solid; background-color: transparent">6.4    1.5 339 38.6               24,169
  • ;John W - Geez more mileage AND a prettier looking table :-)

  • haha. Except that stupid format thing I couldn't fix in the Run total...
  • @Sukhi -- yes, you could do both of those.

    @MJ --
    1. I think everyone is different and everyone's definition / schedule for a BBW or BTW is different and therefore needs a unique solution. My advice would be to post your questions or proposed post-week week in the Micro thread. In my experience, recovery from these can be very similar to an HIM (you're flat through Wed, 80-90% by Thurs, back on the weekend schedule by the following weekend) or it can be more, ie, you're flat through the following weekend. All depends on how big you go, your recovery, etc
    2. Depends on what your goals, strengths, weaknesses are. I think a very short 20-30' AM run, before any rides, is pretty harmless (won't really affect the ride). Strides are a great tool for this. And light swimming in the PM can be good for recovery. But in the end it depends on your goals, strengths and weaknesses. For example, I would probably try to maintain my running frequency while getting in big bike miles, but I wouldn't bother with swimming. Patrick might not bother running but would swim in the AM, before the rides so he can do so with good technique.

    @Scott:
    1. See above.
    2. All looks good. If it were me I would have put that 82mi ride on Day 1 or 2, if possible

    @Dan:
    1. Get the long run in. Maybe shorten it, maybe move it to Wednesday, etc. Whatever you feel is best.
    2. Take the first 4 days and use those.

    @John: nice work and nice table! Tables are cool!
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