Protein Powder in your bottle for long rides?

Dino Sarti

I met with nutritionist today and she brought up something interesting I had not considered.  I just started using Sustained Energy (SE) from Hammer a few months ago on rides longer than about 3 hours.  That product has about 300 calories per serving and I generally consume it at a rate equal to 150 calories per hour.

So, I am using it most Saturdays and the occassional Sunday.  If you are not familiar, SE has 10grams of protein already, but based on my high protein, low starch diet the thinking was that I was not getting enough protein during a 3-6 hour Saturday ride.  During a normal day I am getting 20-30 grams of protein every few hours.

The nutritionist was not concerened about the high sugar and carbs in the SE because the work load was high, but she thinks I will see better results and recovery with 20-30 grams of protein per serving versus 10.  She also thinks it will help with my late night hunger pains.

So, I am going to try a scoop of casein in the bottle with a serving SE.  That will add about 120 more calories and 25 grams of protein.

Any thoughts or prior experience?

Joseph Lombardi

 Dino- I was just looking at my Accelerade bottle (Pacific Health Labs)...Accelerade claims to have developed much of science around the need for protein combined with carbs in sports energy/nutrition drinks...they say the science supports a 4:1 ration carb/protein mix (which they have patented)....in the Accelerade there is 120 cals/serving with 10grams of Protein...so 2.5x= to equal the same 300 cal serving ...would provide 25grams of protein....right in the range your Nutritionist suggested....interesting....so sounds reasonable.

I use both Perform and Accelerade; I have always liked the idea of protein as I ride and the potential for enhanced muscle recovery.  The satiety factor I hadn't considered but makes sense too. 

jwpicciotto

So far I believe that research about the benefits of protein during exercise has not been very compelling. For most people the inclusion of protein in their exercise nutrition is focused on satiety. Penny will probably need to chime in here. One of the questions for you Nutritionist is which of the dietetic guidelines she is using to calculate your protein requirements and what the research she is using to back the use of this training approach is. The metabolic profile is different for protein versus other fuel sources. It changes the amount of water to break down the underlying molecular structure and provides a different ratio of energy for gram of material. If her guidance is based on the fact that you are on a high protein, low carb diet, then this may not make sense for the type of activity that you are doing.

Also I don't remeber the maximium amount of protein that you can normal absorb, but you might make sure that you are exceeding this and just urinating out the excess protein. This is one of the challenges with people who protein load. They take in double the amount of protein that they body can handle. They metabolize half of it and pee the other half out.

penlynwilson

I'm not sure why you'd need protein in your drink other than for satiety. Your body doesn't use much protein for energy during exercise - max is about 15% in endurance and ultra-endurance events. Additional protein can also lead to GI distress in some people.

Your body DOES use carbs/sugar and fat when you are working aerobically (the ratio depends on the intensity of exercise). That is why you need carbs/sugar in your sports drink.

Coach Rich

Posted By Joseph Lombardi on 05 Jun 2012 04:59 AM

 Dino- I was just looking at my Accelerade bottle (Pacific Health Labs)...Accelerade claims to have developed much of science around the need for protein combined with carbs in sports energy/nutrition drinks...they say the science supports a 4:1 ration carb/protein mix (which they have patented)....in the Accelerade there is 120 cals/serving with 10grams of Protein...so 2.5x= to equal the same 300 cal serving ...would provide 25grams of protein....right in the range your Nutritionist suggested....interesting....so sounds reasonable.

I use both Perform and Accelerade; I have always liked the idea of protein as I ride and the potential for enhanced muscle recovery.  The satiety factor I hadn't considered but makes sense too. 

 

Also note that Accelerade paid for the study that found the 4:1 ratio...hmmmm

In my experience, your body needs sugars, water, and sodium while exercising. I keep it simple and focus on that. I also get very gassy when I add protein to sports drinks, and I get my protein on after my sessions, not during, to help with recovery.

cgres123

Sooooo.... I'm an Accelerade guy because I don't like some Hammer products and I want to walk into a store to buy my products not order on line. What are my choices that I can experiment with that just hold sugar/ carbs...

Joseph Lombardi

 Well...I'm not a shill for Pacific Health Labs...but it works for me and just like with FRS I believe there is a tangible benefit....for longer events/rides 4+hrs  (IM)...I will use Hammer Perpetuem...and I do use Ironman Perform quite a bit for shorter activities.

Deb Livernois

Well I am completely new here and can only offer advice on how to fuel for long training rides or runs because everything takes me longer, not because I have done an IM. I've just started using Vega products developed by triathlete and Canadian national Ultra champion Brendan Brazier. He has developed an entire line of Vega Sports products that are vegan or whole foods plant based products. Of course you don't have to be vegan to use them. His products fall into three phases of training: prepare, sustain and recover. I use his energy gels during rides and the pre workout energizer before rides. The products I find to be the most useful are the recovery products which are high in protein. There are bars, which are delicious, but if you are looking for a liquid there is a performance protein powder wherein one serving has 26 grams of protein. It seems to me that the time for higher protein content is during recovery whereas during exercise we need fast and slow release carbs such as dates and agave respectfully. I also use a product called Vega One to make recovery shakes. I add hemp protein and make with dark chocolate almond milk and coconut water. I have never experienced this current level of recovery before. Check out www.myvega.com just for fun. Select the Vega Sport tab and read all about it. Keep Tri-n!

penlynwilson

Main rule to follow: If you've been doing something that works well, don't change it unless you have a good reason to.

If having some protein in your drink works for you, don't change it unless you need to (e.g. GI distress).

penlynwilson

Main rule to follow: If you've been doing something that works well, don't change it unless you have a good reason to.

If having some protein in your drink works for you, don't change it unless you need to (e.g. GI distress).

[Deleted User]

I have a few grams of protein per bottle in my Infinit blend. Seems to work okay for me in that it doesn't cause me any GI distress, but I think I want a little more protein seeing that I start to get a little peckish after really long rides (say 4+ hours?) I'm not sure if I want to put in any more protein into my blend though; I just don't like the "thickness" that more protein provides (partially why I switched away form Accelerade) and I just ordered two more bags of Infinit not too long ago .

I might experiment with carrying a few Clif Shot Roks (a compact protein souce I can munch on) on longer rides to see how well I hold up...

Dino Sarti

Thanks for the great discussion.

@Penny - I really appreciate your expertise. The reason she recommend a bit more protein then offered by Sustained Energy was that she hoped that combined with a high protein recovery drink/meal right after working out it would help me later that night when I am digging through the pantry looking for chocolate like an addict looking for a rock.

@All - Full disclosure. I have worked in the beverage industry my entire post college life. I sold PowerAde when I worked at Coke for 10 years. I sold Accelerate for two years to Kroger when we launched the ready to drink version at Dr Pepper/ Snapple Group 6 years ago (now discontinued).

@Rich - Accelerade was developed by Dr Ivy, a sports performance guy at the University of Texas. I think the research is university based and fairly sound, but I don't like the "mouth feel" of that product. That is why I like Sustained Energy. The ratio of protein to carb is fairly similar.

Currently, the company I own represents FRS products to all national retailers. I have used FRS for over a year, but I use it for healthy energy in place of things like Red Bull. I had not used the concentrate in me bottle in a long time. I am already getting enough in other ways and I like protein. I also use the FRS chews daily as a source of antioxidants. Additional we represent ZICO coconut water. I great base for your power drinks, by the way.... We also sell of few other brands you may or may not be be aware of. Note the logo in my sig line...

So, if you see me advocating for FRS or ZICO, I will try and always disclose my relationships....

jwpicciotto

Dr Ivy did some of the original research on 4:1 for recovery and in peer sessions that research seemed to be confirmed. He started to advocate protein during exercise. This led to his relationship with accellerade pushing this idea to try and jump the market. After his initial research, a number of follow on studies did not confirm his hypothosis for performance improvement from the use of protein during high intensity exercise. There have been some others that show some connection, but nothing as strong as the studies on 4:1 for recovery.

@Dino on the issue of the pantry raid at night, I love a comment that cycling coach Eddie B made about nutition, "Your body knows what it needs." Seriously, if you are finding that you are having cravings in the evening after your early day workouts, you are probably addressing a deficit that protein loading during the workout will not address. I assume that you nutritionist has a background in counseling. You might have her work through this to determine what is driving the cravings. Focusing on mindful eating can help determine what is going on. Sometimes is can be dehydration, a blood sugar drop or even a psychological cause that you can address through using sports phychology techniques.

penlynwilson

@Dino: If you are rading the pantry at night, you are back-loading calories. You need to be eating more in the morning and during the day. Perhaps more protein at breakfast? That has been shown to help some people.

Tom Glynn

@Dino,

curious about FRS. Have seen it but never used it. It appears to be a stimulant, i.e. energy without calories. Is the main ingredient caffeine?

Dino Sarti

@tom - No caffeine in FRS. The active ingredient is called Quercetin. It is a natural, highly concentrated antioxidant that fuel your body and energy levels. Quercetin was developed for cancer patients and that was how Lance was exposed to it. He was then one of the founders and is a current board member at FRS. He is also share holder.

I sell it, but before that, I was a user and continue to use it daily. I have used it for about a year since I met the guy that supplies Quercetin to FRS. He harvests it in Brazil from a pharma grade facility in the middle of no where. Unless I am mistaken all the tech down there is former Merc drug co guys.

Give it a try....