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Muscle cramping in hot / hilly race conditions

I have struggled with cramps in a few hot HIM-distance races recently.

I never considered myself to have a major cramping problem but in then in 2011 at HIM Vegas I came off the bike and within a mile my quads cramped up to the point I had to walk portions of the run and stop many times to massage my legs. In that race I attributed the cramping to my lack of experience training/racing in extremely dry conditions, and therefore some sort of electrolyte management and/or hydration failure. I drank water on the course and not sports drink so I don't doubt I was short on electrolytes. A contributing factor might have been overcooking the bike since despite riding below my target power numbers, the course was very hilly so I figured I was working some different muscles.

 

This weekend just past at Kansas it was another hot race – 94 degrees and no shade. Because of the prior cramping experience I did two things to try and prevent a recurrence:

 

1. For 2 days before the race I hydrated with Gatorade (both G2 and regular) as well as water, but very heavy on the Gatorade

 

2. On the bike, instead of just taking in water, I brought a full 20oz bottle of Gatorade and drank that…finishing it over the first 45 miles or so. I also drank 2 bottles of water they handed out on the course. Once I finished the Gatorade I got a Perform from the last aid station but it was too sweet so I just couldn't drink it.

 

Unlike Vegas last year I finished the Kansas ride very strong and felt great coming off the bike. I rode IF of 0.843 on a rolling (and freakin' windy) bike course so it was challenging but not insanely so. Two miles into the run I could feel the beginnings of a quad cramp, in particular in my left leg. I stopped a couple of times to massage the leg and stave off a full-on cramp that would have effectively ended my race. I was successful in keeping the cramp at bay but it was always on the verge. After the race I hydrated (water and Gatorade and G2) and ate a lot, although I also got into a car for over 7 hours so I'm sure that was not the best recovery protocol. The next day my quads were very sore and hurt to the touch…as badly as if they had cramped massively the day before.

 

I'll note that my calves also cramped up massively, but not until right after the race. And they were also in incredibly bad shape the next day…hurt to the touch as if bruised, just like the quads.

 

I posted to the dashboard and got lots of helpful suggestions. I'll for sure be trying many of them. For the benefit of the team I'm listing all the replies I got here, since this may be useful to folks long after it scrolls off the bottom of the dashboard. If people have other suggestions please let me know and I'm all ears!

 





I was eating Endurolytes like skittles during Eagleman today. No cramping problems at all, and I was able to stay on top of my nutrition w/few GI issues... Highly recommend Endurolytes.

 


Try coconut water beeps ore and during. Also I am using a new product called Base Electrolyte Salt developed by Chris Lieto and it works great. You can add it to your electrolyte drink. Also, I drink 16-20 oz of electrolyte drink before the race or exercise, sipping it slowly. I have been battling as well and these things are working for me so best of luck. Also compression tights after the fact for tired muscles.

 


Ditto on the coconut water! Great solution to the electrolyte issue; I usually don't have to add the Endurolytes until my training gets really long and hot. Usually August here in LA.

 


Skratch Labs drink mix? It is amazingly high in salt and electrolytes.

 


Matt I take a magnesium supplement twice a day as well as loading electrolytes before races as well as during races (600 mg per hour).Since I started this approach I have never cramped.

 


I sweat like a pig, so I have large electrolyte loss. I used to cramp every race, until I took S-caps every half hour. 1 on cooler days, 2 on hotter days. I have not cramped since, even on HOT HIM race days. On a side note, my brother swears by the magnesium sprays per a Ben Greenfield podcast, and it helps him not cramp. He also takes S-caps in addition.

 


Matt, look into a topical magnesium, I used to get debilitaing crampd in my calves, especially at night, and I have not had one since I started using this stuff- serach ancient minerals magnesium on amazon. I use it after every workout, just put it on after you shower, it's magic, really!! MAgnesium is supposed to be really important for endurance athletes, it's pretty depleted in our food.

 




 

Comments

  • Matt -- you also might want to experiment with fluid intake on rides and see how you feel. Pro Tour cyclists take in about a liter and a half of fluid/hour -- which is about twice and much as what you did.

    What did you take with you fluid-wise on the run, too? When I did AmZof, people did not understand my trusty Amphopod bottle (with diluted HEED) -- until the middle of the race, when there was bottle jealousy.

  • On the run I did my usual...stash an ICE COLD bottle of gatorade in a small container in T2 and grab it on the way out, drink it over the first couple of miles. I managed to down about 3/4 of a 20oz bottle of that. From then on, water only.
  • Posted By Matt Aaronson on 12 Jun 2012 11:17 AM

    On the run I did my usual...stash an ICE COLD bottle of gatorade in a small container in T2 and grab it on the way out, drink it over the first couple of miles. I managed to down about 3/4 of a 20oz bottle of that. From then on, water only.

     

    Cool. I also wonder if there's a possibility your not absorbing enough electroytes/etc. from Gatorade -- have you experimented with anything else? 

    I have an awful preference for running at lunch -- in the summer. Thursday long runs on hot days are EXCELLENT for testing nutrition.

  • Hey Matt, I used to suffer cramps in the worst way. I asked a sports Dr. about this and he gave me the best answer I've heard to date. He said "We really don't know what causes a muscle to cramp at a given time" It can be at least 1 of 3 things, possibly more or any condition involving the 3.
    1. Dehydration has been known to cause cramping.
    2 Electrolyte imbalances have been known to cause cramping.
    3. Using the muscles beyond its trained range( intensity) can cause cramping.

    So for me it was a puzzle to solve. What I've found is that the sweat rate tests help me figure out hydration levels. I stay on top of my electrolytes, before during and after the race. And I ride/run within the tested abilities determined by FTP tests and Race Rehearsals. I did a lot of my early training/racing in South Georgia where temps were normally over 100 degrees. It took 48oz of fluids/hour to keep me weight neutral. I usually drank Gatoraide Endurance and added 2 Lava salts/hour on the hot days. If I try to ride a 1/2 over .75IF, I'm likely to cramp on the run.

    So, everyone is different and I think it will just require some trial and error on your training days to determine the right combination of these to get your best result. Good luck, this can be a tough one.
  • @ Matt, each Gatorade has 110 mg Na per 8 oz so on the bike you took in ~ 280 mg Na I will also guess that you drank ~ 60 oz of fluid on the bike. With a bike split of ~ 2:30 that’s ~ 110 mg Na/hr with ~ 24 oz/hr water. I would think that that is not enough Na and might not be enough fluid depending on your sweat rate. I was having a similar problem in the HIM’s I did last year. All races that I do are hot here in S.Fl and I got the following advice from Gordon G

    “"Extended periods of exercise at even moderate intensity can cause significant losses of fluid through sweating. Electrolytes, including sodium, potassium, magnesium and calcium, are present in this sweat at levels that over time will cause your body to become depleted. Muscle cramping, loss of performance, heat stress and other symptoms can result from reduced electrolyte levels and dehydration."

    With the full article here: http://www.slowtwitch.com/Training/..._1093.html

    The article has some numbers to look at but they are talking about 400mg/h for a 143 lb guy not being enough. “

    I would also ask are you a heavy sweater? Is your sweat salt ie are you crusty, does your clothing have white salt streaks? That also may help you determine your Na needs. Also a sweat test may help you determine your fluid and Na needs.

    Additional in House links that might be helpful:

    Sweat test directions ( http://members.endurancenation.us/Resources/Wiki/tabid/108/Default.aspx?topic=Sweat+Trial+Instructions )

    Monitoring hydration statue ( http://members.endurancenation.us/Resources/Wiki/tabid/108/Default.aspx?topic=Monitoring+Hydration+Status )

    Anyway I hope some of this is helpful and congrats on the Vegas slot. Hope you can get the cramping figured out by then.
  • @Dewey great answer, thanks! I agree, OTC gatorade does NOT provide very much sodium. The biggest difference btw that and Gatorade Endurance or Perform is sodium. I think you are totally NOT getting enough sodium in. I'd also wonder what you are doing on race day that's different than in training -- do you ride "more aero" or push differently?
  • I sweat like crazy and have suffered from cramps for years. Endurolytes have so little sodium in them they were as useful as taking Skittles (sorry Greg, I wouldn't recommend them to anyone). I switched to Salt Stick tabs and then to S-caps after I joined EN. I carry calcium/magnesium tabs as well. I've upped my hydration during races, increased the intensity of my RRs to try to mimic race intensity, and swallowed S-caps wholesale...still cramping. After having the worst cramping episodeS ever at San Juan this year, I threw in the towel and decided to add PICKLE JUICE SPORT to my arsenal. As Dave correctly stated, they do not know the cause of cramps, but the Pickle Juice studies PROVE that electrolytes are not always the cause. In their studies, they electrically induced big toe cramps on subjects and had them drink Pickle Juice Sport. Most folks had their cramps stop in 30-45 seconds. You can't absorb the electrolytes that fast and they think the vinegar is snapping the nervous system back to the right firing order. Regardless, since San Juan I took Pickle Juice Sport at St Croix (4 x 8oz), and in a subsequent Sprint (1 x 8 oz) and an Olympic (2 x 8 oz). No cramps, not one, not even a hint of one. Cozumel will be the real test, but so far this stuff is working for me. It tastes like crap but it beats the heck out of coming to a stop in a race due to a cramp.
  • If you're a heavy, salty sweater, like me, try "The Right Stuff." It's an electrolyte supplement that I use to spike my water bottles. It has 0 calories and 1780 mg sodium in a small (20 ml) vial. That's like taking 7 salt stick tablets. It sounds like a ton, but TRS was recommended to me by former 70.3 world champ Joanna Zeiger. After suffering debilitating cramps in several 70.3s, and then experimenting with more an more Salt Stick capsules, I started to get a handle on the fact that I needed more than 1000 mg of sodium/hour to avoid my cramps if I were working at high intensity for more than 2-3 hours. (In warm weather, I needed even more). Since I started taking "TRS," I'm completed several 70.3s and an IM without cramps.

    I've read all the studies suggesting that electrolytes aren't the sole cause of cramps, etc. I've even tried actual pickle juice mixed with water. Seemed to help but not very practical. From my personal trial and error, this product made all the difference. If I hadn't found this product, I would've quit the sport. I should say Salt Stick worked to an extent and helped me to better understand how much I needed, but my sodium needs are too high for them to be practical. And for my sodium needs, using Endurolytes are like using a sprinkler to put out a forest fire. I don't know if your situation is a dire as mine was, but I think this is a great way to prevent cramps for anyone who has persistent problems.

    I'll forewarn you, the website doesn't inspire confidence, but I'd be happy to tell you more about how much this helped me.
    http://therightstuff-usa.com/faq.html
  • @ Coach P my thought on why it does not show up in the RR is that there is usually no swim prior to the bike and often the run is not long enough. At least for me, the cramping was coming after 1 hr in the run, long after I had stopped running in a RR.

    @ Paul I love the taste of straight pickle juice and often drink it after long Sat rides to help with my lytes. Never had the Pickle Juice Sport. Also another trick I've done is to chew a Salt Stick when the cramp starts and then swallow. For some reason that seems to relieve the cramp in ~ 60-90 sec. I've also heard of chewing Tums as well but never tried it.
  • I use pickle juice in my HIMs and IMs, as well as my long hot bike rides-which is just about every wknd here in Texas. I put it in both my BSN and RSN bags...I'll swear by it as a lifesaver!!

    Cold/cool is much better than warm or even hot-that's nasty!!
  • Matt, one regular Gatorade and two bottles of water on the bike and that's it? You surely had some gels or something, right? You were woefully low on electrolytes regardless. Dewey did the math for you. You should probably be closer to 1000mg/hour and you barely scratched 100.

    As has been pointed out, regular Gatorade has little electrolyte value when compared to Perform or Gatorade Endurance. I also would not recommend Endurolytes. They have a fraction of the electrolytes of Salt Sticks. Like Paul said, you might as well take Skittles. Why anyone wastes their money on Endurolytes is beyond me considering there are much better products out there for the same price.
  • Thanks everyone for continuing to add to this. Clearly there are many ways to skin this cat, and it is a very individual "YMMV" situation for sure. I will be experimenting with some alternatives. Dewey, that is great to lay out the numbers. I have never looked at this systematically at all. Historically I have just drank when thirsty and tried to make some of the drink to be Gatorade. I will study the topic a bit in the coming weeks and try to double or triple my sodium and see what happens.

    @ Bob - I did put down 4 gels on the bike as my nutrition. None on the run. This may not seem like a lot but in fact it is 1 more gel on the bike than my prior races (I was experimenting), and I really had to force it down. And I paid for that with a side stitch that had me stopped for almost a minute at mile 3 of the run. In general this is consistent with training, where I might do a gel before the session or between two activities, but really don't eat a lot during the workouts. I had 2 gels in my pocket on the run but even thinking of them brought on a side stitch!! I should mention that I do a lot of pre-fueling, including over 3000 cal the day before the race and 700 cal on race morning after waking up at 4:30am (1 Ensure at wakeup, 1 Clif bar in the car to the venue, a Gatorade over the course of the morning, and a gel 10 mins prior to my start).
  • I thought that I was good on Na+ until I dug a little deeper into our Wiki.

    It's suggested that we go with 500-1000mg Na+ per hour.

    I couldn't believe it. I usually sat around 200 per hours.

    And without rehearsing it, I found myself setting up a plan that put 550-600mg/hr into my system, and set it up 2 days before my recent HIM.

    I was worried. I usually cramp often on the run, especially in hot/hilly environments, so I was hoping this would be a breakthrough. I felt that I would either finish the race and shout from the rooftops about EN resources or I would be in the med tent with palpitations.

    end result...first time in a HIM that I haven't cramped, at all.



    However, I think Dave C's post is spot on for anyone trying to get on top of the cramp thing. Several guilty parties involved. Gotta work on each one.
  • Yea. Glad I found this thread. Sorry that it was 5 days after my HIM crampfest. Looking at my consumption, I was 370mg NA per hr on the bike (about 1/2 of what it should be as I gather) and who knows on the run because I took what was on the course.
    The good news is that I have another 70.3 this season to try better NA+ management on.
  • That's why these posts stick around!

    Waiting for the next guy.
  • I don't have the answer to this, but be careful when assuming that having crusty sweat means that you need to take in more salt. The body works really hard to maintain a few things. Among them are temp, pH and salinity. Yes, all three can be overwhelmed as we all know. However, among the things the body does is adjust the level of salinity of your sweat. If you're a very salty sweater, it's an indicator that you have plenty of electrolyte, not an indicator of shortage of electrolyte. If you're a salty sweater and suddenly you notice mid-race that you're NOT a salty sweater any more...THAT is probably a better indicator that you need electrolytes!

    Anyone who is not a salty sweater can usually turn themselves into one by taking in a lot of electrolytes... they will get sweated out!

    A 20 oz "serving" of Perform has 175 calories and 475 mg of sodium.
  • Data point from this weekend. Saturday, very humid, temps around 90. Rode 63 with local roadie group. 3:11 ride time, IF was .88%. Felt cooked but OK. A bit dehydrated. Repeated Sunday on another ride. Hotter, around 92. 65 miles at IF of only .75, but the day before was showing up. Within 1/2 mile of the finsih, every muscle below my waist started cramping. I thought I was going to have to get off and try to walk the last 1/2 mile. Drank 6 24oz bottles of Gatoraide Endurance in the 3:20 ride. Was in bad shape to start a 35 minute drive home. Stopped at a store and bought a jar of dill pickles. Ate about half of them and drank the rest of the juice. Cramps were gone within an hour. Haven't had that level of cramping in years. Bottom line, I didn't drink enough and worked too hard for the heat. But the pickle juiice came to the rescue!
  • I tried something new in my race yesterday with great results. It was a sodium loading protocol. I've started a new thread to explain it in some detail: http://members.endurancenation.us/Training/TrainingForums/tabid/101/aft/9364/Default.aspx

    Cheers,
    Matt
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