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Unofficial long run hack

You may know that R&P dialed down the long run intensity this season.  For instance in the advanced IM plan, what used to be a Z1 long run with 3X1 mile @ Z3 has become a Z1 long run with the first 30min @ Z1+30sec (consistent with IM race pacing guidance) and then short walking breaks every mile.  Initially I put a help desk request in assuming that the beginner long run s somehow got insertedinto the advanced plan by mistake.  I see how the new long run approach is useful for race rehearsal purposes or for anyone working on basic endurance but at least in the advanced plan you might want something a little more (at least from time to time) so I thought I'd share what I typically do - which is how I've always structured my long runs regardless of what the plan said.

I tend to alternate between a basic Z1 long run and a version with some higher intensity at the end.  It takes me a little while first thing in the morning to loosen up so I basically ignore my pace for the first 2-3 miles and simply jog.  This ends up being 30-45sec slower than my Z1 pace to start. Over those first few miles I'm gradually settling in and end up comfortably at Z1.  If I'm doing a basic long run I simply hold steady. 

My other option adds some "quality" at the end in the form of either a fast finish or progression.  These are basic staples in marathon training.  The fast finish is just that - kick up the pace for the last 2-3 miles as close to Z3 as you can sustain.  This isn't comfortable, it's hard work.  Hammer the last 1-2min with whatever you have left but don't push to the point of struggling and potential injury. For the progression I use more moderate intensity and build over a longer period.  So the last 4-6 miles of an 18 mile run for instance will gradually build by maybe 10-15sec/mile.  For example, I'll hold my 7:30 Z1 pace up to mile 12 then drop it 10sec/mile for the next 6 miles ending up running 6:30 for the last mile.  Both of these runs help build the stamina and mental toughness you need at the end of a race when the effort gets difficult even if the pace remains constant.  It's usually advised not to do these long runs every week but instead alternate the basic long run with one or the other "quality" long runs.

Comments

  • Joel, in your quality long runs are you doing the walk breaks as well, or just running non-stop?  In other words if the goal pace is to be, say, 7:15...are you running ~6:55 so that a :30 sec walk break balances out to ~7:15?

    In my z1 long runs I factor in the walk breaks, but wonder if they're counterproductive during a quality long run session.

  • I am listening, but want to hear from others first!!
  • Posted By Mac Caudill on 12 Jun 2012 03:13 PM

    Joel, in your quality long runs are you doing the walk breaks as well, or just running non-stop?  In other words if the goal pace is to be, say, 7:15...are you running ~6:55 so that a :30 sec walk break balances out to ~7:15?

    In my z1 long runs I factor in the walk breaks, but wonder if they're counterproductive during a quality long run session.

    I don't use walk breaks in my long training runs although i do stop a few times at water fountains for 15-20sec.  When I race though I always walk the aid stations.  Never timed it but I'm assuming maybe 10sec of brisk walking at most but at every aid station up until the last few miles.

    For training I think it's fine to include walk breaks as a practice strategy for races but would only do it during a couple of long runs, not all.  If you can't sustain your Z1 training pace without walking and without struggling then you are likely going too fast to begin with.  I'd actually suggest including the walk breaks in the Z1 portion of the quality long runs and then do the fat finish or progression segment non-stop and also do the basic endurance long runs constant.

  • Here's what I've discovered about myself and long runs over the years:

    • running more than about 40 minutes consecutive at the same (slow) pace is intolerable, and I won't/don't do it 

    • In runs longer than about 60 minutes, I generally take a walking break of 10-30 sec every 1-2 miles. I've found that I go *faster* overall if I take the breaks than if I try to run without including the variation that walking brings, in HR, muscle use, mental attitude, ability to drink, swallow, and absorb fluids/gels.

    • Fluids every 10-20 minutes, quantity depending on the effort level and temperature. For runs over two hours, a gel packet in the middle is all the additional calories I need.

    • True long runs (90 minutes or more) as part of training for HM, HIM or IM races (I no longer do stand-alone marathons): after a "natural" warm up to get up to speed (as per Joel), I like to hit some intervals of 10-15 minutes @ HM pace, followed by some breath catching time @ EP, finishing with some 10-20 minute intervals of MP. The harder (but not too hard - tempo more than interval effort) stuff at the stuff wears out my legs enough so that the MP stuff at the end feels like the end of a race to me, be it HM or IM.

    • FInally, I don't need to go longer than 2 hours 15-20 minutes using the above model to get sufficient training for a quality IM marathon of 4-4:15 on race day.

    This formula comes after years of experience/experiment with: 3 hour runs, 20 mile runs, no walking, gels more often or not at all, salt pills or no, more or less fluids, etc etc etc.

    I suspect there will be variations on what I find works for me, due to differences in age, experience with run training, and overall speed (both faster and slower), so there will be no "one size fits all" here.

  • Just my $0.02 worth.
    What Al describes is functionally similar to the EN HIM long run training approach. I have only done about 6 HIM builds with EN and am of the view that it really does prepare you (mentally and physically) for the second half of the HIM run.
    My first IM build was last season and I found it surprising that those long runs were nothing about Z1 pace — that said, I was struggling with tiredness ovewr the last 6-7 weeks so I didn't object and stuck with the prescribed slower approach.
    My thoughts now are that Al's approach might be a better way, assuming I could deal with the tiredness.
    And I do 30 min loops from my house and have a walking break every loop to have a gel and water.
  • oops, I meant "... nothing above Z1 pace."
  • In prep for a Boston Qualifier this spring I was doing a build of 2 miles each week for my long run from 12 miles to 20 miles at progressively faster paces. These runs peaked three weeks before the race with a 20 mile run at 10" slower than race pace (7:30/mi). I found that this kind of build was too much for me and I paid for my exuberance on race day, suffering a stress fracture and standing down for the last 7 weeks. I will now never go faster than race pace +30" for an overall avg pace on my long runs. I can do the faster stuff for my shorter runs or mixed in with the long runs in the form of intervals. I also am subscribing to the theory of no long runs longer than 135 minutes, they just beat you up too much.
  • You were doing the entire long run  progressively faster each week?  As in your average pace each week got faster on your long runs as well as adding distance?  I can see that becoming a problem - you added volume plus intensity every week.

    My suggestion above isn't for everyone.  You need to evaluate your abilities and current level of fitness and make an individual decision.  For me personally, the change in long-run guidance was just too much of a reduction.  I need to get a bit more out of my long runs then simply being on my feet for 2-2.5 hours so I accomplish that roughly every other week by adding the fast finish or progression.  It does a nice job of simulating the increased effort and menatl toughness required at the end of an IM just to hold a steady pace with the fatigue of a 5-8hr bike ride already in you.

  • I like this hack -- it sounds like something I do on every run: at a certain point (a stop light/ a turn-off) I declare the run to be "mine." I have listened to RnP's plan and now, I get to do whatever I want. If I want to walk - fine. 99% of the time, I just want to run some variety of fast - block sprints. Turn off the watch and just let legs fly. Perfect form flying.

    I do think it is valuable to run at race paced efforts because teaching legs to do so is valuable -- but I'd have an inclination to save race specific pacing for closer to the race and spent time building speed and variation in during the early weeks.

    Lately, I've been having a great time throwing variations in every run. Shorter breaks between intervals. "Hill" repeats in parking garages. Different shoes.

    And, it seems to me that the thing I need to do most in a running plan is always a) the thing I want to do most (ie. 400 repeats) and the thing that kinda scares me (ie. running a 5k/doing a really long adjusted threshold pace or mary pace block in the middle of a long run), so I've been paying attention to those, too.
  • My starting point for the long run is this: Here is the Most Important Workout in Your Week (when it comes to race preparation). I have solidified my thinking on this with the recognition that I tend to overperform in the IM run releative to my VDOT, and particularly, in the last 8 miles. So, whatever long run strategy speaks directly to achieving that overperformance, and whatever lets me maintain that competitive advantage, gives some hints about my approach to hacks.



    Short version of the DT hack is I'm stuck in time, circa 'EN 2008-2009/Crucible Fitness 2005.'  So, I base my weekly long runs on 30-50 EP, 20-40 MP, then seamlessly move to the track for very disciplined 20 - 60 HMP.  15' or so remainder at MP or better.  Perfect form is  Job One, especially in the second half of the HMP and the MP remainder.  Not a lot of walking (but I admit i'm inserting more as a mental survival technique than I used to).  Eat and drink when moving. 



    Works for me. But then again, maybe it doesn't: I've been in the same 5-minute range for maybe 10 IM marathons, and have always wondered if I could break through to a 3:25 run.

  • Dave - sounds to me very much like your vdot isn't appropriate for your longer distance training and racing. That long run you describe would destroy me and I'm a pretty solid runner. If you can knock that out consistently and be ready for more quality training after an easy day then I think you need to base you vdot and pace zones on a 10k at the very least if not a 10 mile test. I'm guessing your 5k performance is out of whack compared to your longer benchmarks - you underperform in your 5k vdot testing rather than overperform in the IM marathon. Everyone has a specific muscle fiber composition and particular aerobic/anaerobic mix. It sounds like you are simply better suited to longer moderate intensity rather than short relatively intense events.
  •  I do almost all my long runs as progressive runs...usually out and backs....I always look to run the middle third at Z3 and then the final third as is possible...hold pace or faster...or hold and ease it in....I have a tendency to start out too fast...and really need to focus on pulling back the reigns in miles 1-3 to 5.

    I recognize that I probably am not training at a hard enough pace at times( ie. if running the strict workout my middle third should be closer to 6:50 and I'm running 7-7:15..but I'm okay with this approach.  I like flexiblity in my run and will often run find in that middle third the need to take a 30sec. walk breaks between hard mile efforts...or sometimes I try to shoot for 1.5-2mil segments then a break..kinda depends on the day,, conditions, how I feel etc....Net-Net I like to see my 10-13mi. time pace get faster/easier..as a benchmark...as I have a particular 12mile loop that I run on a fairly regular basis as a test(?)... 

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