IMMoo vs IMLou vs screw it post IMCDA
Figured I'd post here also to increase pool to draw responses for those that don't see Race Execution forum.
Busy travel day Tuesday and long day at work today so haven't been able to answer the comments but I need some help w/ a decision.
Bottom line, I'd like to get a KQ the hard way rather than lottery/legacy and am on bubble talent-wise. Already signed up for IMF as a "fun, no pressure" race to get to IM #9 and 3/4 of way to Legacy slot. Of course, even on my best day, a KQ is unlikely as my run is not my strong suit, and there is too much run talent (as well as plenty of drafting) at IMF.
Remainder of year, radical options are: IMLou and IMMoo. Even from Columbia, SC, I'm not sure a non wetsuit swim and potentially brutal heat/humidity at IMLou are my strengths. Positives are rolling bike I've been told by friends I'd "love" and ability to drive to venue. Also TT rather than mass start (less anxiety).
IMMoo: Positives: 2 more weeks to recover/train. Familiar w/ course ('04/'09). Wetsuited swim (likely) Hilly bike. Likely cooler weather than Lou and even mid to low 80's w/ reasonable dewpoints are very doable for me. I have a friend who is training for IMMoo who lives near my house in NC mountains and did a KQ there in '09 at age 50. In 2009, I cramped on bike (inexplicably) at mile 110, yet still turned in a 10:12 which would've qualified in either 35-39 or 45-49 (alas but not 40-44...) so I've had a decent time when not at my best on that course. I was using Cuddeback then for coaching and was pretty fried by taper time (which might explain my cramps despite appropriate bike execution AVP/NP/TSS-wise).
IMMoo: Negatives: Flight/bike transport/etc headaches. Last time I tried two IM's close together I was very flat in month leading up to 2nd race and way under performed but simply was way off my peak. That happened to be 2009 IMmoo/IMAZ combo under Cuddeback and I went 10:12 at Moo and 10:13 at AZ (WAY easier course). Of course, I'd like to think I'd recover more this year and I'm less beat up post IMCDA than I was post IMMoo. Another big negative is the pressure/mental fatigue/anguish of gearing right back up and not being at peak and/or a near miss at KQ.
Thoughts? Anyone...Bueller, Bueller...
Help!
Comments
Jeff, I was thinking about exactly this option for your KQ case earlier today. I would say Lou, if only because:
-WI will be nearly impossible to get a spot at this time of the year (but PM me for a top secret option), and
-you'll be able to get a lot of time in the heat to slow down less than the rest of the field at Lou.
FWIW, I did exactly the same last year ... outer bubble at CDA, mentally registered for WI by the time I was getting off the plane on the return trip post-race.
First of all, as MJ said, you miss all of the shots you never take. Meaning, in this case, if you believe IM FL is not a KQ option, it never will be for you. Don't discount it so easily - I have surprised myself so many times in my IM races in the past 6 years, I no longer make any assumptiions about what might or might not happen.
If you insist on adding another IM to your schedule this year, I also vote for IM Moo. I think the time trial start in Louisville is a detriment to racing.
But ultimately, the fitter and faster the athlete, the better he will do, no matter how hilly or flat the course, no matter how hot or cold, dry or rainy the day. You are fitter and faster than 98+% of those in your AG, so you have a chance any day, anywhere you toe the line. Don't limit yourself in your mind; that always becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Interesting read as i have worked on similar decisions. See my sign ups for the year as below. Tremblant was a back up in case cda did not happen. Now i get to see how the two month gap to next race works. Then i have a three month gap to arizona (this worked well last year) starting my flater course, big man career.
Let us know what you decide.
Fmi, wisconsin and kentucky are both hilly bikes?
I think your reasoning is sound all around and some good comments already; I would only put in a vote for IMLou. I love the course and think you could scorch it....no pun intended...as the weather is the only crapshoot. However as noted; if hot you stand a good chance of out executing alot of the field......
Positives about the course- a.) I really like the TT swim start; and while it is non-wet suit the subtle current makes the energy expenditure probably the same as a wet-suited swim. b.) bike course is rolling with no killer climbs...and a net downhill finish c.) run is flat.
Some great thoughts fellas. Thx. I'm heading to Boone to see a friend and will probably mull it over and have a decision by weekend.
Any opinions about Moo being 2 weeks later than Lou? Is this better or worse from a training/recovery position from CDA?
BTW, I do feel less sore than any other IM (obviously b/c I shut it down after 10K). Have a few blisters but nothing injured. Basically did a really long RR w/ additional 30K run (jog)...
That being said, I do want some guidance on not overtraining/underecovering in next 2 months like I did in 2009 for Moo/Az double. Prior coach drove me into the ground and was pretty much the reason I signed up for EN in 2010...
@Al Good point. I say this mainly after I thought I had decent race at IMF in 2009 @ 9:50 and was a good 25 minutes off a KQ. Not sure how to improve by that amount on that course. Of course, I had a round tube bike and now have a much more aero bike AND a true aero fit by Todd K. Run is better too but hard to see a sub 9:30 given my pedestrian VDOT on that course.
@Matt I have also done IMMoo x 2 in past. I assume this would give Moo an advantage over Lou as I know what to expect on course. And yes, steeper/more technical climbs/descents. I remember your race there in 2009 when I was racing. Killer, and another reason I joined EN after a friend mentioned your membership!
I think the TT start helps....you run your race...nobody elses....over 2.4mi in the water unless your in front next to the leader(s) on the swim...you don't know where you are anyway ..do you realy?
definitely frustrating for sure. or does that help me hide from the better runners? still think course knowledge must help me at Moo!
I like the idea of taking a day or two longer before you make a decision, clarity might come as you rest a bit more...I would keep FL as an option condiderting its a bit further out and that you are already registered...
I know what you are doing and I do the same and understand that you want to get every advantage you have. But honestly, I think it is a draw between the two and who shows up to race that day is the deciding factor.
10 sub 9:30 guys could show up to either race, or it could be a weak field. I don't recommend the reviewing the entire start list approach either as those tend to not be accurate and unknown fast dudes always show up in M30-50.
You have no control over who else shows up. So I wouldn't beat yourself up over this too much. Go with your gut and pick the one you would rather do for whatever reasons matter to you.
EN has HUGE competitive intelligence on the WI Course. Rich has more or less dialed in the formula for the bike, knows how to race that course, and how to teach people to race that course. Moreso than any other IMs, I would imagine. If you're doing that race, you are getting a LOT of course-specific coaching and instruction, which is a huge value-added item.
Also, the WI bike is naturally suited for the non-EN racer to make a lot of mistakes. And for you as a smart guy to capitalize on racing smart.
As long as we in the team guard WI intel jealously, it's worth a lot against other non-EN racers in some of the more competitive AGs.
* you are kona qualifying material, so stop selling yourself short (even in post above you do it).
* your biggest enemy isn't the competition, it the guy in the mirror race morning who is in your head.
* don't worry about times on race day, or what last year's times were, or what your times have been, or what you think the competition's time is at the time it is race time -- just race to your best given what's going on.
Given the above, it's important to pick the course where you will have your best race. Not where you have been fast before or what you think the competition will do. Why? B/c none of that matters and all you can do is focus on your best race, period, and let the results sort them out.
So, I say you go IMMoo, because:
* you have 2 more weeks, which means you can REST MORE BEFORE YOU START TRAINING AGAIN.
* you know how to execute the bike (forget chasing set numbers, just ride smart) which will set you up well...and...
* the IMMoo run is an exercise in attrition given the bike.
However, you can't bike too hard. You can't look at the competition off the bike or in the first loop....done right, you will get most of them in the last 10 miles....whi ch means you need to be ready to put together a good 130.6 mental day (see Rich's recent article) and then 10 mlles of guts.
If you can agree to all of that above, then go for it...and only then can we talk training!
Just talked with Jeff as he is on his way to Boone, NC with spotty internet and phone coverage for the weekend.
I read him the responses he has not seen before he left a few hours ago.
He asked me to reply with a big "THANK YOU" to all the responses so far and he really appreciates the team's support and ideas. He's going to really think about it over the weekend and try to clear his head. Lot's of good points and things to consider.
@Tallo, if you want to "copy" me on the PM you send him, I will at least try to call him if he cannot get online while in Boone.
George
As Patrick said, you're a fast guy with fast guy goals and so have put yourself into a box where some frank conversation is warranted, and I'll use this post as a teaching opportunity for the rest of the team.
See this blog post I wrote yesterday.
If you can get your mind right about these points and are prepared disconnect yourself from the outcome, race in the now, and absolutely tear yourself inside out, to get it done or die trying, then I say IMWI is the better race for the reasons that Matt, Dave and others have mentioned regarding the course, etc.
But if you won't be ready to play in the Mental Bigs that the KQ guys in 40-49 are now playing, then I don't think it really makes a difference where you race. My point is that these days the separation between 1st and 10th these days is largely mental. Or rather, we all have several minutes to be had on race day by doing ^those^ things I outlined in that blog post.
These mental skills apply to all of you. Patrick and I have probably seen more mile 18-26 athletes than any two coaches on the planet. The largest difference we see in people on race day is the eyes. I see four sets of eyes: