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I'm guessing I need a power meter....

When it comes to running I have the whole pace thing figured out (I guess as I come from more of a running background) - I can pretty much tell what pace I am running without even having to look at my Garmin (which was a good thing seeing as the battery died on my @ CdA this past weekend!) - but I suck when it comes to judging the bike.

I don't have a power meter, although I have access to computrainers during the week so train with power. From this I know I shoud be getting a 'feel' for what my various zones and targets are like for my legs, but I just don't seem to be able to push without seeing that that 'average watts' glaring at me!

I am always so paranoid about blowing up for the run that I know I tend to hold back on the bike but didn't realise how much until today.

It was my 1st time back on the bike after CdA so hooked up with a friend for a nice easy 50km spin. We chatted for the 1st 10km and she then took off as she wanted to do a little harder so I deliberately hung back, spun up the hills, coasted the downhills and generally if in doubt, switched it to an easier gear. Well much to my frustration when I got back, my speed was basically the same as it always is (I ride pretty much the same routes - certainly the same type of hilly terrain all the time and wind was the same as always - headwind out, tailwind back) - and yet even with being deliberately cruisy suzy I was no slower than when I could swear I'm pushing it (and I'm talking looking at speeds over 10+ outside rides, not just comparing to 1 previous!)

What gives?! I guess I need power to really get my 'head in the game' and make me push when I need to ?? Physiologically I have it in me I know that - but I seem to need to get the head to catch up and it would appear that until it does, I need a solid # (ie power) to work from.

Do you guys get the same - that you need to see that # (be it run or bike) to keep you on track or have you trained to do it by feel now (ie I just need to suck it up buttercup on the bike and push harder in races? - $$ being somewhat of an issue right now ie not really able to just run out and but a power meter&#160image

Comments

  • Selina — it takes practice to get the feel of what x watts feels like. An alternative for you on the bike is to use heart rate, where your CT sessions can be used to dial in your heart rate zones, and how these match your power zones.

    Before EN I used heart rate for both bike and run but tended to 'overachieve' and really suffered.

    Now I am really happy using power and would never go back — but I realise not everyone wants to spend the money on power.

    BTW, I have a CT and Powertap and use the CT in my Pain Cave for all Z4 and Z5 intervals (on the CT I program the workout and don't have any choice about whether I hit the targets — you either push the watts, or stop pedaling).
  • Selina, a Powermeter changed the way I train and race. I have found that during a race it is almost always a 'whip' as I need to push harder, but knowing the numbers gives me the confidence to push harder and know I will still be fine for the run. FWIW, you don't necessarily need to brake the bank to get into power. I am constantly on eBay and regularly see used wired Powertap wheels trading between $250-400. Here are a couple that are ending soon:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cycleops-Powertap-Comp-DT-Swiss-1-1-wheel-/271004921846?pt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f1926eff6#ht_500wt_922

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/120939805114?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_720wt_922
  • Thx guys - John - I never thought about the ebay route - thx for the tip as I def seem to need 'the whip'! Gonna go check those out...
  • @ Selina, I am good with the EBay thing and started my journey with power a few years back with a wired PT on a wheel. Never looked back and have enjoyed using it for every ride inside or out.
    Matter of fact I recently bought a 7000,00 bike on EBay for under 2000.00 a few years old mind you and used but as the bigger money steps up to get new stuff the smaller money ( me ) moves on in for a deal.

    Good luck shopping !!!
  • Does the computer head that comes with the wired powertap display things like TSS and such immediately - or only after download and analysis at the conclusion of the ride?

    I never even considered that a previous generation of the powertap may be wired and thus a bunch would be available for relatively cheap. I'd love to have a power meter, but am having a hard time justifying the cost of it plus the joule or equivalent CPU head that it would be used with.

    Thanks for the info on a possible alternative, John!
  • The Little Yellow Computer (LYC) that comes with the older wired units does not display any of those metrics (like TSS, IF, NP, etc) realtime on the computer. And you cannot simply get a Garmin or a Joule to go with them as these older wired PT's are not ANT+ compatible. BUT, many many people have trained and raced for years and years with just this setup (wired or wireless) using only the LYC. Real time power, cadence, and average power are all you really need to get 99% of the way there. The rest of the stuff (NP, TSS, IFF) can all be gotten afterwards when (if) you analyze your data. I suggested those as a way to get reliable outside power as cheap as possible.

    With that said, if these metrics are important to you "realtime" you can get a used ANT+ powertap on eBay for ~$450-850 depending on how nice or whether it is a full matching wheelset or just a rear wheel. You will also need budget in the extra ~$225 to buy a Garmin or similar in addition to the wheel if you go this route.
  • Thanks for the info, John.

    After I looked at it a bit, I came to the conclusion that it was the basic power info you got from the LYC (as you confirmed) - and then after thinking about it some more, if you know your FTP and you know how long you've been riding (which you generally do), you can mentally calculate a good estimate of IF and therefore TSS mid-ride. I also suppose it's one of those things that after some time, you barely even need to think about it, you just kinda know.

    I think this route may solve my problem image
  • Wheelbuilder packages for a Powertap wheel and Joule are just over $1300 and Coach Rich can get you a discount on this list price.
    Just saying image
  • I am thinking I'm gonna go the crank route... I have seperate race and training wheels, so I really don't want to have to do a new wheel build - would rather have my power on the cranks to to give me more flexibility...
  • Selina, for those of us who have a hard time 'calibrating' our perception of how hard we work, the PM is invaluable. Even with it, I am constantly amazed at how dumb my cycling instincts are as I'm charging up a hill at 450 watts, and wondering why I am sucking wind at the top! If you put in the time to learn how to use it, you won't regret it.
  • Not sure if Mike could have said it any better :-)
  • My observations of power this weekend were consistantly being reminded how easy it is to come off the gas coming over the crest of the hill and on the start of the decent. The natural tendancy is to see the Watts go from say, 200w down to 100 watts as the terrain starts to go down hill, if you have a PM, you are seeing the watts drop and are reminded to shift gears and keep the watts up until you spinn out...

    Also, Power is just fun...Its like a training partner who is beating on you reminding you how much or little you are working....
  • Stop it you guys.... you have me drooling in anticipation here lol!!!
  • Selina,

    As you can see, the squad is pretty dialed into training and racing with power, probably the best place in the world to learn. And I'm a Quarq and Powertap dealer so let me know if you're interested in either system.

  • I have trained with power (on a computrainer) since Jan and am utterly sold on it - just didn't realise what a difference it would make in racing till CdA as I am sure I sold myself a little short - I just don't have that 'feel' on the bike like I do on the run when it comes to judging power (pace for the run...) And Rich - I am interested in Quarq (I run on 165 cranks)... Thx :-)
  • Selina, you could always sell the Computrainer to fund the purchase of a PM...just sayin...

  • unfortunately its not mine :-) I train with a local group and have access to their facility of trainers whenever I want to.... but how about I sell one of my munchkins then - I have 3 sooooo..... (just joking... really...!!)

  • Don't forget to analyze the data. Power is so much more than staring at the LYC and seeing how many watts you can make. I recently got WKO+ (EN discount, email Rich) and it has changed how I view my workouts and training. I analyze every ride (and run) now and take into account many different variables and can definitely see what helps and hurts. They are many resources out there regarding power including the power webinar. I started out with a wired PT, but soon upgraded to ANT+ so I could use it with the 910, so cool!
  • Yep. I wouldn't say that you need to go crazy with analyzing stuff, but at a minimum you really, really need to become fluent in the meanings of nuances of normalized power, intensity factor, training stress score and much more. As others have said, power is like seeing the world in 3d vs 2d....if you know what to look for.

  • I have just upgraded my LYC for a Joule 2.0 that displays (among other things) Pnorm, TSS and IF in real time.
    Having those metrics available in real time makes a hugh diffence IMO.
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